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Dear Daoist scholars-
Does anyone know how the various sections of the bagua were appointed to the specific areas of life that feng shui is said to be based on. I have seen nothing to show me that any one area is naturally atrributable to any particular gua. Anyone have a resource on this I could study or something like it?
Thanks, Alexander
It sounds like you are taling about Black Hat feng shui, which many chinese feng shui practitioners do not consider to even be feng shui. Black Hat feng shui was invented by LinYun about 25 years ago, and doesn’t use the traditional lo pan compass, but ascribes fised directions and qualities to the bagua (making it simpler for novice Westerners to become expert at). This is not to say it does not work, but it is not traditional feng shui which was tied into chinese astrology, of which there are many systems.
michaelThanks, Michael, I know about Black Hat. It’s the modern version which lays down the bagua over the house plan with the north/water side on line with the front door. This is in contrast to the older way which is to align the bagua with the directions themselves.
What I am asking is where did the Chinese get the attributions of each gua in the first place? For instance, why would the southeast area necessarily be associated with wealth? I know that other systems like Flying Star will “find” a wealth area in their own way. But why would there be a wealth area in the first place, as if separate from the whole of things?
I am exploring the origins of this as part of my process of distilling feng shui down to its essentials and most usable form. Personally, from my experience and what I can gather from extensive readngs and talking to people, there are so many ways to work with areas that it is clear to me that THAT part of it does not matter at all. Intention first, then the flow and balance of everything else in relation to it.
Thanks, Alexander
Hi Alexander:
There are basic qualities about areas of life for each trigram and their original geographical palaces or areas. The meanings are generally common among most intrepretations, you will find these things in the Shou Gua or eight wings of the I Ching. I suggest you go to a bookstore and look at a variery of books and you will find them. Black hat does use these classic meanings but their application is a little different, not limited to geographic directions but based on the front door. In many systems of feng shui, including advanced methods the methods are based on the front door, so this is a common and integral method of feng shui.
Using eight directions/Trigrams is just a basic method, much more complex methods are used by pros. Like the differences between smile/orbit and kan and li.
Hope this helps,
bagua
Hello Bagua
I have looked at a lot of books and worked with this a lot (and I mean for years) and there is something about it that bothers me.
“There are basic qualities about areas of life for each trigram and their original geographical palaces or areas.”
Why?
“In many systems of feng shui, including advanced methods the methods are based on the front door, so this is a common and integral method of feng shui.”
Yes, but as I said originally, there is also the method of laying the bagua over the home according to the directions. How can they both be right if it isn’t a matter of intending it? If this is so then the overlay, in any case, is superfluous and only an artificial imposition to structure the mind.
Another example of this is that an east or south facing front door is considered most auspicious in China while in India, their system of Stepatchaved (sp?) starts with the east, then moves to the north, then west, then south last as the least desirable location. How could these both be “right?”
I find this to be a global observation. The Chinese would not tend to make a room round. The Indians would mostly not make one square.
Right now, I believe that structures are developed only for the times and the cultures they are in. There are underlying essentials to “feng shui” that are more important and I think we would do better to focus on these instead. Originally, the idea was that the dispersing qualities of wind were to be balanced by the gathering qualities of water. The overal energetics were the main concern, and always with specific regard to the psychology and needs of the people involved.
The same applies to chi gung and nei gung. The structure will take you only so far then it has to become more essential and organic to the individual. It moves then from being a practice to being an art and (communication) becomes spontaneous. This natural, spontaneous approach is what interests me.
Thanks, Alexander
The question you ask…is very deep.
The answers you seek can only be answered…by certain people in the world.
One reason for the difficulty in answering this deep question – is that you ask the very nature of the Bagua and how it was created. The various elements of water, mountain, wood, wind, fire, earth, rain, heaven…are such basic ideas in the Chinese mind/philosophy/way of life the practitioners of Taoist arts take if for granted. It is very common phenomenon in any field.
So I applaud you for finding the courage to ask the question.
As I mentioned…only certain people in the world can answer your question. One possible source are true, real Feng Shui Masters (not mere amateurs with only a handful of Feng Shui classes under their belt). One reason true and real Feng Shui Masters can answer your question – is that the very basis of Feng Shui and the Five Arts are based on the Bagua.
I take classes from the American Feng Shui Institute…and my very first class was Stems and Branches. It went into heavy detail about elements, how they interact and since they teach this class on-line – your possible source can be this Institute. Of course, I am biased since I continue to learn from them in many ways. I’ve found the American Feng Shui Institute and the Healing Tao USA material compliments each other quite well.
However, you must understand that the Bagua is considered one of the primary assumptions in Chinese Taoist studies. As you know, Western Science is built upon assumptions. Through certain assumptions, a science can be created and generated. It is much the same for the Bagua and Feng Shui. However, as I said – only a true and real Feng Shui Master can definitively tell you how those assumptions were created.
I practice both Taoist meditations/nei kung/tai chi (healing tao/mantak chia) and practice Feng Shui and Astrology…currently I am practicing the Yi Jing method based on the material of the American Feng Shui Institute…therefore, you know a little about my background – and how I originated my line of thinking.
I wish you the best in finding out your answer…and if you do come up with the answer you…please keep this forum informed, because it will help with the nature of the Tao and our understanding of it.
My best wishes,
Slider (real name: Romel)Hi:
As far as the chinese reasoning for what they do there is a logic and theory for all your questions.
The first thing you realize there is no definitive method, there is playing with different energy fields. Advanced methods are really the basics but combined in elegant patterns creating numerous combinations.
To know the correspondences to the Trigrams you must study the shou gou, there is where the life corresponences were written and organized, if you seek to know who are why, I dont think you will find a specific answer. My belief is it is a collective work of many people of many years.
You
Yes, but as I said originally, there is also the method of laying the bagua over the home according to the directions. How can they both be right if it isn’t a matter of intending it? If this is so then the overlay, in any case, is superfluous and only an artificial imposition to structure the mind.
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meFeng SHui, like life is mutlidimensional. Because we have Petscans or MRI, we dont eliminate catscans, xrays, urine tests, each has a value.
You
Another example of this is that an east or south facing front door is considered most auspicious in China while in India, their system of Stepatchaved (sp?) starts with the east, then moves to the north, then west, then south last as the least desirable location. How could these both be “right?”
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MeSouth alwasys being auspicious is based on SOuth is were Yang peaks, and heat or warmnt is valuable, especially in old days. Its a basic idea, like an apple a day keeps the doctor away, in many cases it can be inauspicious.
East is the beginning or yang, so naturally it is a birth. Its just playing with diferent energy fields.
You
Right now, I believe that structures are developed only for the times and the cultures they are in. There are underlying essentials to “feng shui” that are more important and I think we would do better to focus on these instead. Originally, the idea was that the dispersing qualities of wind were to be balanced by the gathering qualities of water. The overal energetics were the main concern, and always with specific regard to the psychology and needs of the people involved.
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MEWind and water are metapors too, not to me taken literally. It is only people who do not study seriously that think the underlying principles are not the first thing taught and the most important.
Feng Shui is not based primarly on culture, it can be but not really. It all depends who you learn with.The advanced methods are often not practical for most people, it is impossible to apply them, so advanced does not mean realistic. Feng Shui is a big topic, 99% of the books on the market and basic level and too rigid.
regards,
bagua
Hello:
The question you ask…is very deep.
The answers you seek can only be answered…by certain people in the world.
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THis is an over statement. Dont buy into the this belief, there are plenty of knowleadable people who can answer these questions. Dont limit yourself to one instutition.I take classes from the American Feng Shui Institute…and my very first class was Stems and Branches. It went into heavy detail about elements, how they interact and since they teach this class on-line – your possible source can be this Institute. Of course, I am biased since I continue to learn from them in many ways. I’ve found the American Feng Shui Institute and the Healing Tao USA material compliments each other quite well.
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Maybe you can share this “heavy detail”, I am willing to discuss this in detail with you, maybe you can teach me, im open to a dialogue on what you learn from your Master.However, you must understand that the Bagua is considered one of the primary assumptions in Chinese Taoist studies. As you know, Western Science is built upon assumptions. Through certain assumptions, a science can be created and generated. It is much the same for the Bagua and Feng Shui. However, as I said – only a true and real Feng Shui Master can definitively tell you how those assumptions were created.
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Im not sure how you define a “Master”, maybe you can give examples. Most feng shui masters i know of are self-appointed and rarely if ever have dialogue with other masters.regards
“The first thing you realize there is no definitive method, there is playing with different energy fields. Advanced methods are really the basics but combined in elegant patterns creating numerous combinations.”
The fact that there is no difinitive method means to me that there are only interpretations derived by the practitioner. What underlies the methods is what is central. This is the same as, say, Michael having mentioned before that while sound is essential to deep meditation, ANY system using it will work because the Dao/lifeforce is always listening and will communicate in any language. I believe this to be a core truth.
What text(s) would you recommend on shou gou?
Thanks for the interaction!
Blessings, AlexanderHi
“The fact that there is no difinitive method means to me that there are only interpretations derived by the practitioner. What underlies the methods is what is central. This is the same as, say, Michael having mentioned before that while sound is essential to deep meditation, ANY system using it will work because the Dao/lifeforce is always listening and will communicate in any language. I believe this to be a core truth.”
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If you study the history of feng shui and how the different methods evolved, it is humans that combined numerous models in extremely creative ways and then applied them to living spaces to see if they worked. No Godlike figures present these methods. Feng shui is about understanding Qi in many forms and how to play with it, just like we have pasta, we can make it into many things, spagette, rigatoni, noodles, etc.Try Alfred Huang’s I CHing or Columbia Press by Wang Bi as books with the Shou Gou. It lists the correspondences, not so much the rationale, some is logical, some you can be intuitive, some you may need to learn more or have someone explain.
The principles are the same but so many applications, I think the issue is more what works for a particular space, not one fits all. Its about having enough tools to deal with any situation.
You may be able to get Shou Gou online free, do a google search. If I have the time I will post some of these things.
regards
I see feng shui as working with shen, as we do with internal alchemy. Emulating our greatest temple in the physical world. So I am shure there are good basic guide lines, but this should never bypass intuition.
Thanks for the input Bagua…
Actually I had to think about what you said…and those are legitmate concerns.
Concerns that cover not limiting oneself to one institute…heavy details in Stems and Branches…and the definition of a Feng Shui Master.
Therefore, I’ll try to expand on concepts you’ve shared.
Limiting Oneself to One Institute…
I am the last person to suggest going to one institute and believing their propaganda. I search constantly for new knowledge, new teachers and new ideas from several sources. I think everyone must do this to verify the nature of information. The ability to use both logic and intuition is crucial in the human thought process.However, I also have realized as I’ve gotten older and more mature…that certain people have such quality information such as the teachers at the American Feng Shui Institute and here in the Healing Tao Material of Micheal Winn – that I personally stick with the program to discover the deepest depth of the information. It is a personal choice…that’s all Bagua…I think everyone needs to openly discover those personal choices and preferences for themselves…in their own time and in their own way.
Heavy Details in the Stems and Branches…
I never understood this until learning from the American Feng Shui Institute (AFSI)…but some information is very detailed oriented. I wish in my heart to share this, but it would never do the information true justice. And my true intent on sharing my opinion was to aide Alexander on the path to seeking knowledge for burning questions about the nature of the Bagua.And my answer my seem – rather convenient. However, believe me I’m not trying to sell the AFSI program of the Stem and Branches…it is because the information is vast and complicated, you actually must learn it yourself. It is very similar to the Fusion of the Five Elements…it can be explained, but it requires specific detailed information. And unfortunately, I am not a good enough writer to bring this information even into a summary form for a posting. Therefore, I apologize Bagua.
The Definition of a Feng Shui Master…
This is where we might agree in many ways. I’ve met many people who claim to be Feng Shui Masters. Trust me, this gives me great reservations in my heart. I wish people would be more truthful with themselves before claiming to be masters.Real masters hardly use slick advertising tricks, but advertise with genuine sincerity. Real masters are given the title not by themselves, but by others who have witnessed their skill – and not just students but by people who they have served. And this level of skill is proven by time – by many, many years of proven success.
When I first entered the American Feng Shui Institute – I was hardly impressed. However, there was something very genuine, very honest and very simple to AFSI approach. That is only from my experience. Class after class, I would notice this type of atmosphere. People who know me from the school know I hardly say a word in class – and only ask most the burning questions. It is my way to keep objective and non-biased. And despite my further research outside the school, I have yet to witness the quality and depth of the information of Feng Shui and the Five Arts anywhere else. But I could be wrong…because I still have room to grow. And is that is why I am here learning from each of you and continuing my studies in the Taoist Meditation side from Healing Tao USA.
I am thankful you shared your point of view…because those are questions many people may have and they need to be answered. I’ve followed, practiced and learned from the Healing Tao USA, Mantak Chia information and other Taoist teachers for 9 years. I do my best to embrace each system of the Taoist Arts – from Feng Shui, Astrology, Chinese Medicine, Face/Palm Reading and Meditation. And do my best to embrace the life enhancing approach of Internal Alchemy, Nei Gung, Chi Kung and Tai Chi to Bagua Zhang.
I only share a part of my own personal journey…and I hope it has helped others like Alexander to find their own path and own answers to questions. And your questions have helped clarify some things in my own life…so thanks Bagua =).
Slider….and Merry Christmas to Everyone…
In the same way Tao Alchemical formulas can be very complex, based on integration of tao principles, theories and complexity, so is Feng Shui. In the same way 90% or more of people have no sense of the detail or alchemical methods we practice, so the same for feng shui. Intuition can lead one so far, one would have to be super developed to perceive existing and potential energy fields, never how to activate or trigger them to manifest.
The world of this type of feng shui is not about intuition, its about patterns of qi fields not see easliy perceived, never mind bringing them to life.
regards,
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