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Bagua, why do you think that “I feel under this theory, there is nothing that is pre-natal or early heaven in this life.”?
Can think of specific examples or currents of thought you’ve heard him express that lead you to think this way about his view?
Thanks,
Ryan
Hey Steven,
Thanks for your nice response.
I agree that more lower Dan Tien work is in order. Ocean breathing still amazes me. I suppose my practice has been more Yang recently, I think some more soft-style would be good. Also reintegration, i think that’s one of the valuable things about the macrocosmic orbit.
Ryan
“If you believe in immortals in your alchemical practice, must you believe in the entire model of the taoist universe. This would include all the gods, demons, realms, etc. Can you take out this from one tradition and that from another and decoct your own theory and call it the tao or reality?”
Based on your reply to yang1, you meant the first sentence as a question, but it ends in a period, so it looks like an affirmative statement, which lead to a miscommunication.
So to an your first question (you wrote two) I don’t think you have to believe in the other aspects of the Taoist universe too because of several reasons:
a) all the aspects of the taoist universe came from multiple facets of tradition, there could be a taoist school completely oblivious to some of the aspects
b) there could have been immortals before these ideas where intellectualized out of the experiences who had not heard of them from other humans on their way to immmortality
c) if you look at different taoist systems, they can contain different things. a person who follows “Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality” and becomes immortal can do this without knowing about a lot of Taoist stuff that is not included in that system.
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Your second question
Can you take out this from one tradition and that from another and decoct your own theory and call it the tao or reality?
That only looks at one way of approaching alchemical traditions.Ryan and friends
Inspiring to read, qtface. I have been wanting to for a couple of years but not really gotten the chance, I was going to take Kan & Li this year but not sure if that’s going to work out.
Ryan
in my opinion, to experience Wu Ji is to experience the Primordial, and since there is only one Dao, an experience of Wu Ji is the purest experience of Dao, and again with the Tantra, a Yin-Yang symbol would also symbolize the Wu Ji and the Dao. Also read the last paragraph on this page to see get an idea what I’m talking about:
http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan.html
Li Daochun relates these stages to the passage of the Daode jing that states: “The Dao generates the One, the One generates the Two, the Two generate the Three, the Three generate the ten thousand things.” According to this passage, the Dao first generates Oneness, which harbors the complementary principles of Yin and Yang. After Yin and Yang differentiate from each other, they rejoin and generate the “Three,” which represents the One at the level of the particular entities. The “ten thousand things” are the totality of the entities produced by the continuous reiteration of this process. In Li Daochun’s explication, the three stages of the neidan practice consist in reverting from the “ten thousand things” to Emptiness, or the Dao. In this way, the gradual process that characterizes internal alchemy as a practice is equivalent to the instantaneous realization of the non-duality of the Absolute and the relative.The Tantric viewpoint is at the end
In Dzogchen it has been said that there is no Rigpa (Primordial Awareness) outside of the Four Elements. Much to contemplate.(wrote this today)
The story of how the Four Elements came to be is that first there was the Akasha (typically referred to as the Fifth Element in the west, like Ether, Spirit). Then from the Akasha came Fire. Then from the Akasha came Water. Then from the Akasha came Air. Then, from the interaction of these, came Earth. Yet looking again at the Dzogchen sentence I wrote, it is saying that there is no Primordial Awareness outside of the *Four Elements*. So they’re one, it’s the same.I don’t think that Akasha and Rigpa are exactly interchangable terms, but I think you get what I’m saying.
Thanks for that different view, Steven. What are your thoughts then about people talking about transforming into Pure Yang? Are these just multiple paths within the larger scope of Dao alchemy?
And, to be picky:
“a unification in a stepping stone to unifying with the Dao itself”
Do you not see the process of Dao alchemy to be Dao itself? Your explanation actually seems to support that idea more than my Pure Yin/Pure Yang one did, I think.
RyanYes, I think they are the same. I think that Wu Ji = Tai Ji, but from another perspective.
This paragraph is theoretical, and should not be taken to be confounding on the next one. In Daoist alchemy males seek to turn their body into Pure Yang, yet they do this by cultivating Yuan Qi. Yet females, according to Paulino Luna, seek to turn their body into Pure Yin. Yet both realize Dao. Ultimately there is only one Dao. So not only does Wu Ji = Tai Ji, but Pure Yin Qi = Pure Yang Qi = Yuan Qi.
That was so theoretical, if an advanced alchemist needs to dissolve it, please do. I almost could have written it in question format.On to a more grounded answer, in the Heart Sutra (Buddhist, but please don’t stop reading) it says that Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form. So they may be, like I said at the top, the same but from another perspective. This is also like in Tantric Buddhism how Emptiness in seen as the same as their teaching on Interdependent Origination, which is how “things” rise and fall. Form and Emptiness are inseperable.
Does it resonate with You?
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/heartsutra.html
