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Pema,
This link may be of related interest.
Best,
RexSinging Ocean/Fajin/Bagua,
I’m just awed by the depth of discussion recently. The body seems to have all sorts of subtle connections extending beyond it’s physical boundary. Some see the physical body as a shell that encases the energy body while conversly others see the physical body as a condensation of an all surrounding (prehaps all pervading?) energy body. Found this image of nadis extending beyond the body.
Best,
Rex
Thanks Fajin. I was amazed that the Rinpoches and Dzogchen teacher(s) that Michael has met didn’t clarify this with him. Prehaps they did and I just pedantically latched onto a dialectic. Best, Rex
“I still havent had any Buddhist explain to me if Buddha is a state or deity, if its human, trans-human or neither, or a code word for something else”
Crikey Michael and you received teachings and initiations from the Dalai Lama and studied Dzogchen!
Best,
Rex“Man who goes to bed with stiff problem, wakes up with solution in hand”
(Sorry couldn’t resist that one. lol)
Best,
RexHi Swedish Dragon,
You’re welcome! Here’s a story which parallels Nnonnth’s tale of a ninja master duffing someone up, its lifted from Sogyal Rinpoche’s ‘Tibetan Book of Living and Dying’:
“But masters are very different, and they can use all kinds of skillful means to provoke that shift of consciousness. Patrul Rinpoche hinmself was introduced to the nature of mind in a very different way, by a highly eccentric master called Do Khyentse. This is the oral tradition that I heard of this story.
Patrul Rinpoche had been doing an advanced practice of yoga and visualisation, and had become stuck; none of the mandalas of the deities would appear clearly in his mind. One day he came upon Do Khyentse, who had made a fire in the open and was sitting in front of it drinking tea. In Tibet when you see a master for whom you have deep devotion, traditionally you begin to prostrate your body on the ground as a mark of respect. As Patrul Rinpoche started prostrating from a distance, Do Khyentse spotted him and growled menacingly, “Hey, you old dog! If you are brave, then come over here!” Do Khyentse was an impressive master. He was like a samurai, with his long hair, his rakish clothes, and his passion for riding beautiful horses. As Patrul Rinpoche continued doing prostrations and began to approach closer, Do Khyentse, cursing him all the time, started to hurl pebbles at him, and gradually larger rocks and stones. When he finally came within reach, Do Khyentse started punching him and knocked him out altogether.
When Patrul Rinpoche came to, he was in an entirely different state of consciousness. The mandalas he had been trying so hard to visualise spontaneously manifested in front of him. Each of Do Khyentse’s curses and insults had destroyed the last remnants of Patrul Rinpoche’s conceptual mind, and each stone that hit him opened up the energy centres and subtle channels in his body. For two marveluis weeks the visions of the mandalas did not leave him.”Nice one – eh?
Rex
On the contrary your posts are incisive and elicit productive debate! Oh I’ve been fine thanks Nnonnth. Rex
Hi Swedich Dragon,
I wish I could converse in Swedish half as well as you can in English.
“My deeper question are is this two perspectives possible to intergrate or aren’t they?”
Integrate ruthlessness and love? Sure you can. The phrase ‘tough love’ comes to mind as do images of fierce Buddhas who are wrathfully compassionate. Western Kabbalah talks about balancing Mercy with Severity and vice versa. Of course there has to be a certain level of integrity and personal spiritual integration to do this effectively, otherwise as Yoda says ‘subtle are the ways of the darkside’.
Rex
P.S. Hey Nnonnth you’ve made an excellent comeback!
There was an interesting exchange a while back on the use of chi kung in dealing with serious physical illnes:
https://michaelwinnv5.qlogictechnologies.com/cgi-bin/tpost.pl?smessage=3737
Deep Healing Chi Chi Kung was also mentoned positively in this thread though with the important warning that no medical claims can be made about it whatsoever:
https://michaelwinnv5.qlogictechnologies.com/cgi-bin/tpost.pl?smessage=3742
P.S. Does anyone know how to put more than one hotlink in a message without using the form?
What about this?
“In fact as I type there is no one there for me. I feel scarred and badly wounded, and trapped. nothing is light.. ”
🙁
How about reciting, aloud or silently, the mantras of Tara and the Medicine Buddha? (not exactly Taoist, I know).
“I thought the whole point here was that this board is precisely about *obtaining* that direct experience. I can’t think of anything else to say, so I will shut up” 🙁
Sorry NN hope my reply didn’t come across as getting on your case. It was just a general pontification addressed to everyone. Rex
Hi NN,
“I can’t understand what’s going on! This is just as ludicrous as believing we are born from past sins! Whatever next?”
Everything is the magical display of original awareness? LOL!
How to define original awareness to everyones satisfaction is anyones guess!In the absence of direct experience all metaphysical assumptions are unprovable matters of faith. As buddhists say the perceptions of beings are as limitless as the number of beings in existence. But is there something that supports impartially the limitless perception of beings without directly advertising itself? Taoists call it the Tao which is hidden yet always present:
The Tao is like a well:
used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities.It is hidden but always present.
I don’t know who gave birth to it.
It is older than God.The Tao is called the Great Mother:
empty yet inexhaustible,
it gives birth to infinite worlds.It is always present within you.
You can use it any way you want.The Tao is infinite, eternal.
Why is it eternal?
It was never born;
thus it can never die.
Why is it infinite?
It has no desires for itself;
thus it is present for all beings.(taken from http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html)
Personally as a deluded and confused guy I dont see any difference in this view of the Tao and the dzogchen view of primordial and unborn awareness, empty in essence, radiant by nature, whose energy is all pervading’. Buddhists say that desire is the one of the main drivers for human rebirth. Taoists also make a link between desire and manifestation:
Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.(taken from http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html)
No one has to subscribe to notions of karma, merit, interdependence, buddha nature and rebirth. In the light of the Kalama Sutra these concepts and working models shouldnt be taken as incontrovertable truths either:
“Do not believe in anything
simply because you have heard it.Do not believe in traditions
simply because they have been handed
down for many generations.Do not believe in anything
simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.Do not believe in anything
simply because it is found written in your
religious books.Do not believe in anything
merely on the authority of
your teachers and elders.But when, after observation and analysis,
you find anything that agrees with reason,
and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and allCan anyone articulate with certainty any alternatives to karma, merit, and rebirth? Buddhists can’t prove the validity of these concepts but conversly non-Buddhists can’t disprove them either.
All the best,
Rex
