[Max]

Over the years men get drained from sex and women are more inclined to find a new “battery”.

[Max]

Gallbladder flush

[Max]

“Freed from desire, you can see the hidden mystery.
By having desire, you can only see what is visibly real.”
Tao Te Ching

[Max]

Is it a description of a state of being or a description of what will happen if you practice a method? In general, Zen masters never talk about those things even though they may have those kind of abilities. But I understand what you are trying to say.

[Max]

I personally don’t like the Chan methods of koans, emptiness meditations, or whatever they use, because I don’t think that they are very useful.

Chan/Zen methods have produced quiet a few enlightened masters. Emptiness meditation is also a foundation advised in Taoist texts by many Immortals.

[Max]

So, to my knowledge, the most basic tool of inner alchemy, the inner smile, is the best way to clean the mind of passions and desires before beginning One Cloud’s formulation.

Yes, the inner smile is a good method.

So, in my view, Michael DOES emphasize cleaning the heart of desires and passions before beginning the more advanced formulations.

It’s been a while since I listened to any of Michael’s courses. Maybe he changed them and doing it now- I don’t know. Mind and heart free of thoughts and desires- difficult task that takes more then a few years to master.

All paths aim at unity with the greater self and actualizing one’s true nature, but I think that the Daoist path is more direct in this.

You chose the path that you feel most comfortable with. As long as it inspires you to practice, you should go with it. Practice- that’s what will bring you there.

[Max]

Fajin,
What language is metta from?

It’s a Pali word. Read more here:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/buddharakkhita/wheel365.html

Yang, Jwing Ming, Buddhists go external to internal while Daoists go internal to external.

I would like to go deeper into description to clarify what Buddha taught (it’s one of many methods he taught, btw, with same underlying principles). The experiences of being ‘present’ I described before are the results of internal observations within the body during meditation.

First you observe the gross physical sensations, like heat, coldness, pleasure, pain, itching, etc. You observe them without discrimination or attaching judgment. If you feel pleasure, you just observe that part of the body and move on to the next. If you feel pain, you don’t wish for it to go away or miss the pleasurable feelings. Just observe and move forth. At times with those sensations you will relive the ‘past’ event in this life time. It will be clear to you like you were there, and you will see it with complete understanding of all sides of the story and all the karma related to it. You just observe without reacting.

Eventually after time all the gross sensations will go away and through your developed inner senses you will notice all the subtle sensations you never experienced before. The prolonged periods of bliss can follow. A lot of seekers get trapped by this. Just observe. Deep karmic experiences can come during that time. This life, other lives. When I say karmic experiences I’m talking about Shen and their influences that shape your destiny. Also, through all these experiences you undergo gradual states of Emptiness or mind and heart purification.

There is no end to the process. As you go deeper into stillness, the deepest layers of your Karma/Shen are being revealed. Observe. The day may come when you have no more karma left- no more karmically charged Shen strands. You become a fully realized being. With no more karma being created because your acts are in complete synchronicity and the flow of Tao, and with no more past Karma needed to be resolved, there is only one thing to do- help others to do the same.

There many old stories of Taoist Immortals and Enlightened Buddhists monks meeting each other and respectfully acknowledging each other’s spiritual development. But times changed.

[Max]

I just want you to know how much I appreciate Bagua sharing his experiences, with his angelic patience and ability to express concepts far surpassing mine. Tune to the energy of his messages- they tell far more then the words posted.

[Max]

Adrian,
Please do not take it personally but Bagua’s understanding of original Taoism and Buddhism is very clear and experientially deep. It takes many years to find and experience your own truth. You need to verify things on your own. I agree with many things what Michael says but his comments on Chan didn’t resonate with what I’ve experienced practicing Buddha’s cultivation methods. Chan is a religion, and if one wants to get on a pure path that Buddha taught to people, they better go with Vipassana or read Diamond sutra or Pali canon. Then you get the information that is as close to the real thing as it gets.
So practice Michael’s alchemy and read Taoist classics. They will help you eventually to sort things out. Through your own experiences.

[Max]

Hello Fajin, or should I call you Adrian from now?

Buddhists attempt to still the mind, but what is making the mind unstill?

Here is what Buddha observed through his meditations. It’s only a crude version and you can write pages on it. I’m taking it from my other post so you don’t have to look.

====================
“1. Everything in this world is made of 5 elements.

2. Human body experiences a combination of these 5 elements though your 5 senses. Like for instance, a woman passing by. You see her through your eyes, you may smell her perfume, she maybe talking and you hear the sound of her voice, etc. Depending on your development you may sense her energy and other ‘elements’ like some things about her life you could never know otherwise.

3. Your mind gathers all the information from your 5 senses and put a ‘label’ on it: the woman is pretty and you like that, you don’t really like her perfume, the sound of her voice is very gentle and soft and it reminds you of someone else you knew before. Your mind has developed a complex combination of labels to chose from- not just ‘like and dislike’, or ‘love and hate’. These labels are your emotions and feelings and they shape your reactions to her.

4. After you experienced a complex mix of emotion and feelings- they could be very slight and subtle, or strong and heavy- you develop either a clinging or aversion, again they could be very strong or subtle- all based on the experience of your senses and the reaction of your mind. These clinging and aversion may take many shapes- it all depends on your individual karma.

Buddha discovered that this clinging/attachment or aversion/rejection are the culprits that make people’s suffering possible. That beautiful woman you saw is gone, but because of your emotional response you are still thinking about her. You cling to the emotions that contact with her had produced and you want to feel them again and again. But because the woman is not there with you, you can’t have that experience, and so you suffer.

The opposite example is someone called you a bad name. You hear it through your ears, your see the person’s angry face, and you might feel their anger through other means. Your mind immediately puts ‘labels’ on your senses- disappointment, rejection, anger, etc. You don’t like the experience of someone’s calling you a name and you have an aversion/rejection toward it. It may long be in the past but that negative feeling is still there, and every time you see this person you may feel a complex mix of feelings toward them.

Buddha saw all of that and he realized this process above is the source of all people’s suffering, and also what shapes their destiny and makes their karma. As the nature of all things is impermanent, all attachments and clinging people have will cause them to suffer after the object of their attachment is gone.

He concluded that the step #3 is the reason for all of this. Your mind reacting to the senses with emotional response. You stop this process and you stop the source of all your misery.”
================

I will also add that as you deeper into your meditation, you will be able to observe subtle sensations within your energy field. They may be related to your present life and experiences, or they may be connected to your shen and related to other lifetimes. That covers not just 5 major organ shen but hundreds or may be thousands of others related to you.

As you follow this path, your life experiences transform into something deeper and more profound. Living in the ‘present’ as Bagua was trying to explain to you, doesn’t not require any effort or conscious choice. This is not a static condition and the word ‘present’ doesn’t describe the experience. You are not a passive observer- you act as you normally would and to the outside observer you may look like an ordinary person.

As you go through with your practices every day, your senses and abilities expand to the point you begin to observe things in everyday life you wouldn’t be able to observe before. Your mind becomes clear, your heart is free from cravings and your perception will also begin to have the same qualities. You start seeing things for what they are, without your past experiential garbage you normally bring to every encounter. You begin to see the forces underlying the events, the causes and effects and other subtle forces that guide the flow of our experiences. From that point on your acts bring wisdom and clarity in every situation and if you make a choice it will be based on a variety of subtle energy conditions you are able to perceive.

What happened to our nice discussions of internal martial arts, lately we so strongly disagree with each other, Metta?
We have different perceptions of things, that’s all. Nothing is wrong with it. And we will eventually talk about internal MA. Now it’s not a good time.

Metta (Loving kindness)

Max
real name

[Max]

Fajin,
I read through the whole thread and believe you misunderstand what teahings as taught by Buddha are and also have high hopes based on the descriptions that come with Michael’s formulas.

You have great trust in Michael and what he said, therefore you should go on and study what he teaches and dedicate time to practice it. In order to understand Chan and the effects that come with it you need to spend time following that Path. They don’t have fancy descriptions and claims. That doesn’t mean the Path doesn’t produce simular results as the Daoist alchemy. But to know that you need to be there. For now, it’s just guesses and assumptions.

I would also recommend one thing. Study taoist classics and texts that were written by Immortals (like for example, the commentary by a taoist Immortal to Tao Te Chin that a gentleman just put up on the board). If you read carefully, ALL of them talk about Emptiness as a foundation for Alchemy to take place. You don’t have pure heart free of desires and clinging- you alchemy will be a simple visualization exercise. You said ‘Lao Tsu said that we should empty the mind to fill the belly’. Maybe we should?

[Max]

…and my mind is polluted as well.

[Max]

So, like you said Max we should practice Michael’s alchemy with an unpolluted mind first. That’s what the inner smile does, but fusion (the 1st formula) does at a deeper level.
You know, I really hope you will be able to get to that point.

Fajin

Fajin

What part of you signed first, and what – second?

[Max]

I have been many “enlightened” teachers.
Seems like you misspelled it, but to make sure, you meant ‘seen’, right?
If not, could you tell more on this? Like names.

[Max]

Wow, you really put some time into this and I appreciate you cared enough to dedicate you to clearing things.

I simply can’t go point by point to respond to all this- it would take a lot of time, plus believe it or not, I agree with lots of it anyway. I want to address the most important aspects of this debate.

But from my understanding, the ultimate goal of all functioning in that Buddhist state of enlightenment is to help other human egos get off the wheel of incarnation, i.e. GET OUT OF THE PHYSICAL PROCESS OF INCARNATION.
The ultimate goal of a realized being would be to help others to realize the same state of complete enlightenment or original nature (see below). A short-term goal would be to free them from suffering through of their mastery over sensations and their influence on the mind.

This desire to get off the wheel of incarnation is why, in my view, Chan Buddhists have seized upon the early Taoist TECHNIQUE of “Sitting in Forgetfulness” or “letting go” or “emptying the xin/heart-mind” and employ it to reach their goal. It’s simple to learn, thus can be taught to the masses (at that time, simple peasants). And its effective in relieving the stress of the post-natal mind. It s a kind of “unpointed” one-pointedness…. …It’s the lure of any one-pointed technique: get on this ONE horse and ride it all the way to the Transcendent End. Don’t bother your mind with any other complication, you will end up lost in a side alley.
May I remind you Kuan Shih Yin used listening to sounds method to attain complete enlightenment or, according to Taoists, immortality (Shurangama Sutra).

The Chan position was perhaps best summed up by Ken Cohen, who in his Way of Qigong book quotes one of his teachers as saying in effect, “If the transformations are jing to chi to shen to wu, why not take a shortcut and just skip the first three and focus on Emptiness only?”
This is completely distorted. Please don’t use such low tactics to prove you points.

Ken’s first Tao teacher, the famous and loquacious Alan Watts, was, by the way, really a Chan Buddhist – he hated alchemical Taoism. I wonder if a little alchemical practice might have helped Watt’s alcoholism, which apparently contributed to his early death.
Another example how you use one person to discredit millions of others.

Ego is the term Freud used to describe the individual self (to be distinguished from egotistical/neurotic, negative or dysfuncitonal behavior of the ego). We should also be asking, “What is ego in Chan?”, to balance out the question “What is ego in Daoism?”, but I leave that for Max…

Is ego of a Taoist different from ego of a Buddhist? So, why do we need to play the head games in hopes we catch each other and hang on to words?
Wang Ch’ung-yang, the immortal teacher of famous 7 Taoist Immortals had this to say on this and other topics that were raised in your post (this also falls under what Bagua was saying):

“Everyone has original nature. We do not see it because it is often clouded by craving, desire, and evil thoughts. If we do not sweep away that which hides our original nature, we will lose our connection with Earlier Heaven and be doomed to countless lifetimes of suffering. How does one reconnect with Earlier Heaven? Earlier Heaven must be experienced with the heart of the Tao. If one tries to understand Earlier Heaven with the EGO, one will never find it. Earlier Heaven and original nature are in front of us. We cannot see it because the ego has constructed a barrier. If we are able to dissolve the ego, then original nature, or the heart of the Tao, will emerge. When the heart of Tao emerges, Earlier Heaven will appear.”

“Today I shall expound the meaning of stillness. If you understand the meaning of stillness not only will you understand the Tao, but you will be able to manage a family and rule a kingdom. There is deep meaning hidden in the word ‘stillness’. Many talk about stillness, but few really understand it. To get to the root of stillness one must view the word as empty. One enters stillness through severing ties to whatever disrupts stillness. When you are in a state of stillness you need to be alert and must dissolve stray thoughts before they contaminate the stillness. In this way, distractions will disappear before they arise…”

“If you don’t know your heart, you do not know the Tao. Therefore, to cultivate the Tao, you must first start with cultivating your heart. You must replace a heart of stray thoughts and desire with a heart of the Tao. Still your thoughts and calm your mind. Tame the wildness in you until nothing can cause your mind to move. Taming the heart in not easy. You must be on guard constantly. When you notice your mind moving, you should calm it. Only through this can you build a strong foundation. The mystery of the Tao in in the emptiness of mind. Dissolve your thoughts, and the original breath of life will emerge. The heart belongs to the element of fire, and fire [symbol] has both yin and yang components. Yang and Yin need each other to copulate and produce the Golden Pill. Thoughts residing in the mind are like monsters. They are obstacles that prevent you from attaining the Tao. If you are unable to still your mind, then you can accomplish nothing and the Tao will be farther away then ever.”

Like I said before in other posts, Buddha taught to “complete you destiny” through methods involving observation of sensations within the body. I already mentioned the technique before- but unless you use it to go deeper into the most subtle inner layers of your shen all the arguments about it are useless.

You keep pushing this idea that somehow a Buddhist meditator represses their destiny from being complete by ‘checking out’ from reality. How can a clear unpolluted mind observing surroundings as they are be called ‘checking out’?

You also said things about ‘neutral’ space with connection to Buddhism. I don’t know where you get your information. There is no neutral, left, middle, right, up, down, central… whatever. These are just words that don’t describe the state clearly. The best explanation of this state is AS IS. Everything is AS IS. Is it better?

But mostly agree with a lot of what you said. My feeling also is that the person has to have a ‘pure’, ‘clear’, ‘unpolluted’ mind and heart before they start practicing the alchemy you teach. That’s what the pre-requisite was for aspiring students of the Tao ages ago to even get the instructions. Don’t tell me times are different now and we are opening the old secrets to the masses. 99.9% of us will fail without even knowing why. Everything must be pure- I remember Plato said a few years ago referring to alchemical formulas: ‘If you start ‘cooking’ shit, why do you expect to get something else in return?’ And eventually on the path, you need to let go of the structures that brought you there. Or is the alchemical prison you’ve created too comfy to let go? 🙂

[Author]

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