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Thanks Yi Tao for a dose of much needed sanity. It’s astounding to me how people who view themselves as free “thinkers” buy into so much conspiracy theory crap simply because those theories are promulgated by people outside the mainstream.
Taking the word of a blogger over most any “establishment” source is a questionable way to conduct your life. This doesn’t mean a blogger is always wrong or an generally recongnized established source of information is always right. But it is ludicrous in most situations to take a blogger, etc. at face value while assuming that the NY Times or an offical investigative body is lying to you.
Next time I’m in the neighborhood, I’ll look you up. Feel free to look me up next time you’re in NYC. Don’t have a stone circle, but and make you a nice cup of tea.
One thing I love about this board is you can ask if anyone’s had any interaction with Michael Morgan and have the group launch into an extended conversation about Iamblichus, elemental spirits, god and gnosticism. Some very interesting stuff.
It is, of course, also one of the things I find frustrating about this board. (What can you do? Probably a lesson in life in there somewhere).
I’m glad Michael spoke up because I know you know Morgan (or knew him, and in fact just recently mentioned lapland in one of your posts).
I’m really interested in Michael’s or anyone else’s views about the validity of his central claims about himself, his channeling, etc., his general grasp on reality, and what his 20 year apprenticeship with Yokar has produced.
Thanks.
Iamblichus dijn
Love the house Michael.
I’ve often fantasized about someday living in a log cabin (and find it somehow endearing that you reside in one).
Good luck with the tubing system.
I didn’t mean my list to be a comprehensive re-write (though I think it’s comprehensive enough for Tao USA purposes).
I meant it more as an example of what the thing should look like (clear writing, limited number of thoughts per sentence, cohesive, etc.)
Singing Ocean wrote:
“Just out of curiosity, is it:
1) the concepts you disagree with,
2) the statements are confusing to someone who doesn’t understand the concepts, or
3) the concepts are presented in an unclear way?”
All three actually. As to point (1), I don’t think a mission statement has to pander to the completely ignorant but it is a statement of mission. The first part of that is a “statement”, which traditionally means it is supposed to communicate to others (i.e., not just those familiar with lingo largely made up by one man). The second part of that is “mission”, what the organization seeks to accomplish. Much of what Michael wrote, and all of the basic points you wrote, are not actions that an organization would take. Virtue qualities (you) and individuate the self (winn) don’t really fall into a mission of an organization. (perhaps “help others attain the qualitty of virtue through . . . ” etc.).
As to point (2), I’ve already discussed this above. The thing was loaded with buzzwords largely made up by Winn to describe his take on Chia’s formulas. I’m not objecting to the creation of buzzwords or even new concepts, I just think it’s both pretentious and confusing to put them in a mission statement. I might create a brand new language that no one else knows. I might want to teach people that language. And it might be a great language. But I think it’s a bit ridiculous to write my mission statement in that language.
As to (3), oh yes. Quite unclear. Mostly because it would take about 15 pages for Michael to clarify them. And I genuinely believe that if we had a dialogue about them a number of his concepts would change over the course of explanation. So yeah, it’s unclear. I think Michael is a fine — and clear — teacher by the way. I’ve had the fortune to take a short class or two of his in person and had more extensive exposure to his tapes. But his writing about this stuff comes across as willfully obscure and “dense to impress”.
Here’s a few thoughts:
1. Embody Taoist principles of Unity, Balance and Harmony with nature.
2. Support the investigation and dissemination of Taoist practices and philosophy.
3. Further develop and synthesize these practices, including chi gung and inner alchemy meditative practices, into new and more accessible programs.
4. Teach others, through these programs, to live in harmony with the life force and thereby achieve health, knowledge and spiritual transformation.
Brace yourself because this is gonna be harsh.
I think you’re out of your mind. I think you should come back to earth and try to communicate with people instead of making up a vocabulary that no one else (and perhaps you) don’t understand.
See below:
1. Embody Tao principles of Natural Unity [WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, I MEAN REALLY? IT SOUNDS ALL NICE AN NEW AGE-EY, BUT WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? NATURAL UNITY? SHEESH], Balance, & Harmony.
Surrender to Life Force flow [SAME COMMENT. “LIFE FORCE FLOW” — WHAT IS THAT AND WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO SURRENDER TO IT] as Original Nature [SAME COMMENT. “LIFE FORCE FLOW AS ORIGINAL NATURE” WHOLLY OBSCURE. IS THAT YOUR POINT – TO BE OBSCURE?], Yin-Yang & Five-Phases [I THINK YOUR USE OF “AS” IN THIS SENTENCE IS WRONG].2. Develop a heart-centered Human Energy Science [A BIT DIPPY BUT BETTER. WHAT OTHER KIND OF SCIENCE WOULD IT BE IF NOT HUMAN? ALSO, WHY DO YOU INSIST ON CALLING IT SCIENCE? IS IT SOME SORT OF INSECURITY OF YOURS? ALMOST NOTHING YOU DO IS SUBJECT TO ANYTHING THAT COULD REMOTELY BE CALLED SCIENTIFIC METHOD. HOW ABOUT “HEART CENTERED ENERGY PRACTICES”?] to benefit all.
Cultivate love and trust in the Life Force [THERE’S THAT LIFE FORCE AGAIN. MAYBE YOU SHOULD DEFINE IT UP FRONT SO PEOPLE NO WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT AND DON’T THINK YOU’RE JUST SPOUTING VAGUE SPIRITUAL SOUNDING STUFF — “USE THE FORCE LUKE!” ] via Qigong & Inner Alchemy.3. Accept unconditionally the process of Physical Embodiment. [AGAIN, WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN?]
Awaken radiant sexual health & whole-body enlightenment. [WHY ARE YOU PLUGGING SEX, PARTICULARY SINCE YOU ALWAYS SAY IT’S OVER-EMPHASIZED IN THIS SYSTEM? ALSO, WE’RE AWAKENING SEXUAL HEALTH BUT NOT GENERAL HEALTH? WHO KNOWS WHAT “ENLIGHTENMENT” MEANS, LET ALONE “WHOLE BODY ENLIGHTENMENT”. HOW ABOUT TRANSFORMATION? WHICH, WHILE STILL VAGUE, IS LESS VAGUE AND MORE ACCURATE.4. Release struggle, [ONE DOESN’T RELEASE STUGGLE. ONE RELEASES TENSION, PAIN, ANGER, ETC (ALL OF WHICH MAY BE THE RESULT OF STUGGLE). ONE PERHAPS STOPS STUGGLING, OR LESSENS STRUGGLE. BUT THEN YOU’D HAVE TO, AGAIN, SAY WHAT THE HELL YOU WERE TALKING AOBUT. WHAT STUGGLE? ] follow the Way of Effortless Completion. [IF I HADN’T READ ALL OF THE ABOVE GARBAGE I’D SAY “EFFORTLESS COMPLETION” IS RIDICULOUSLY VAGUE. BUT AT THIS POINT IT’S LOOKING PRETTY GOOD] Express creativity & focus free will to shape our souls unique destiny. [DOESN’T REALLY GO WITH THE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH]
5. Individuate the whole, true, original, and Immortal Self. [COME ON “INDIVIDUATE THE SELF”? CAN’T YOU TRY NOT TO SOUND OBSCURE AND POMPOUS? EVERYONE VIEWS THE SELF IN INDIVIDUAL TERMS. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?] Integrate our personal heart-mind with all levels of Greater Self. [YOU THINK PUTTING GREATER SELF IN INITIAL CAPITALS MEANS SOMETHING? NO ONE KNOWS WHAT YOU MEAN BY GREATER SELF. IT SOUNDS COOL BUT MEANS NOTHING (IS THAT WHAT YOU’RE MISSION STATEMENT IS ABOUT?). FRANKLY, “HEART-MIND” IS A BIT OF A STRETCH BUT IT’S THE LEAST OF YOUR WORRIES.
I could go on but I won’t. Throw it in the garbage and start over. Pretend you’re talking to a high school business student whose never heard of heart mind, soul completion, greater heaven or any other fancy and largely undefined terms that you like to bandy about. Just tell him simply, in words he can understand, what these practices will do for him. If you can’t do that, you’ve got no business teaching this stuff or writing a mission statement.
You did ask.
Thanks for the response. I think I’ll have a bit more to say tonight or tomorrow but now have no time. In the meantime I just wanted to offer my condolences to you and your family about your dad.
Hey Rares,
Thanks VERY MUCH for your insight and candid comments. It’s given me a lot to think about.
I might have some more questions later. If so (and if you’re interested in answering them), should I post to this board or can I reach you by email?
thanks again,
spyrelx
Thanks for that Michael.
I’d be interested in her (or your) further explanation of “the chan immediacy is different from the immortal existence in zuowang which is again different from the ultimate neidan transformation”.
In other words, a brief explanation of what these three goals are. What is the ultimate objective of each of thes practices? (this seems to be a recurring theme with me lately).
Finally, like somoene else implied, I find the last sentence completely obscure: “Krishnamurti is strong on emphasizing that point [i.e., the different end goals of the practices] and working by leaving all techniques aside.”
This means what? That he rejects all three end goals as being not worthwhile? And that only one end goal is worthwhile (the one achieved by dropping all technique)?
humbly hoping for some clarity,
spyrelx
I’m glad Max asked the question because I’ve had similar questions for you. So thanks Max, and thanks Rares for answering.
Rares, I’m hoping if you’ll indulge me and respond to a few more.
I’m wondering if you’ve noticed any physiological/energetic changes since you’ve been practicing his method? I imagine you’re not lighting newspapers on fire with your hands, but have you noticed any changes as you’ve progressed (other than quieting the mind)?
Also, do you feel this path has value EVEN IF one is not able to practice the requisit 4 hours a day for two years? In other words, I recognize that without dilligent all-consuming dedicated practice, I won’t become an yinyang gong master, but will a continuous but less intense practice still provide positive results?
Finally, from you’re own perspective, what is the “end goal” of the thunder path? What do you hope to accomplish if you pursue it?
Thanks much.
Well, Max, you know, I just dipped in here and did my best. I don’t think I’ll be back for a bit so if you choose to answer this you can have the last word. Either way, I’ll just leave you with your own words, something you said to Wendy in a post below, and worth considering once again:
“You see, it takes a strong man to admit you are not perfect. I failed so many times in my life and every time I saw this failure to be a step-stone of hope for what i want to accomplish in my life. It’s ok to fail because it means you tried. You fall and you get up. It’s a process.” – Max
Be well,
spyrelx
