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Well, it’s now around four years later, so I thought I’d post an update on this in case someone reads this thread looking for the same thing I was, namely to stop losing energy via ejaculation and orgasm as part of healing a chronic illness.
To reiterate, Chinese doctors would tell me not to masturbate or have sex, that it would negate their treatment. I found that I could not resist the urge, my lust too strong. Sex didn’t deplete me as badly (probably because of the energy connection with the woman, and also because, in a relationship, I tend to become less horny and need less sex), but masturbation was terrible. I’d feel tired and drained for a week afterwards, and just when I’d be recovering, need to masturbate again.
After many years of this, I came upon a site about karezza that taught that one’s addiction to orgasm could be broken by resisting for two weeks. My initial post in this thread asking for help was at around the two week point, where I’d white-knuckled it, almost beyond my level of will power with still no relief in sight. Just a little while longer, though, and it happened. The urges lessened (didn’t go away), and I went for 100 days or more a few times without orgasm. Usually wet dreams broke the cycle, and I had to start over again. Slowly but surely, though, I became less and less physically fixated, able to connect with women on a more human level once the biological urge was reduced. In other words, I felt like I could connect with women much like another woman, not like a dog. LOL. (Not that I was a dog. I think I countered the instinctual dog-ish nature by becoming overly respectful of women.)
Then, last year, I got into a year-long relationship, and I fell back into ejaculatory sex. Now I’ve been out of that relationship for around half a year and find I’ve regressed. The urges aren’t as bad as they were before all this, but they’re fairly strong. I’m back to holding out for a few weeks, breaking through to the other side, then having a wet dream break the cycle.
In looking over this thread, I see Steven warning of insomnia and headaches due to too much sexual energy going to the head. That didn’t happen to me, probably because I never got much chi to move. I don’t know exactly what happened, but I feel the lack of semen loss helped my healing. I’ve started to be able to feel a small amount of chi move up the spine, though, so now the warnings everybody in this thread gave me make a lot more sense. I probably should’ve listened better, but luckily, no harm was done. I still plan on abstaining as much as possible, though, since the white-knuckling after every orgasm is just too taxing. If I didn’t I’d be back to weekly masturbation sessions that were so harmful.
That is indeed an inspiring video. Thank you.
The link at the end, however, goes to a thread about that same video, not one about the Deep Healing Qigong.
How do I quote your message? Anyway, yes, it’s not good to program oneself to be weak or sick, so I agree we should do what healthy behaviors we can. My point is, though, that for some, even ten minutes of standing is too much. For someone without experience with CFS, it’s probably hard to understand, but it’s true. I could get into the biology of it, but I hope you can take it on faith that I know what I’m talking about. Thus, I guess the question is whether only a few seconds of a standing chi kung is superior to a longer time with a lying down chi kung? I assume longer is better, right?
Is there an demo video of the Deep Healing Qigong, or can you describe it? I’m on disability, so money’s tight. I’d like to see if it would work, given my unusual needs, before I buy it.
Cattleya and I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, so though we may be able to stand and walk a bit, I don’t believe it’s healthy for us to do so. We have orthostatic intolerance, which means the blood pools into our lower extremities when standing up, which places a strain on our body which already is severely weak (mitochondria aren’t producing enough ATP).
I do believe chi kung can help us, though, so I’m also interested in this thread. For me, it seems I can only tolerate a few seconds of chi kung before I get very restless. It feels like a self-protective mechanism my body has is kicking in. Paradoxically I also get tired very quickly, even if all I’m doing is a visualization with no body movements at all. Cattleya has also told me she feels that chi kung activates her sympathetic nervous system, which is the opposite of what a CFS person should be doing.
Any advice? Also, what are the difference between the chi kung forms you listed? Might one be better suited than another for different conditions or goals?
Thanks, SD! I seem to have thought of doing exactly the same things, and it’s great to hear that it worked for you. I hope to someday be at your level of health, and I also hope that one day we both achieve the highest levels.
Have you learned how to relax yet? That’s still hard for me. As is smiling, but I’m getting better at it. LOL. Seems like a funny thing to have difficulty with, but I think a lot of people have the same problem. Life is hard, but we don’t have to make it harder on ourselves. See life as the miracle it is, thankful just for each breath, each good thing we do have. Then energy will flow more freely through our bodies. I think that’s what the smile is all about.
I have experienced some unbelieveable things too, so maybe I should just have faith. Just don’t have too much faith and follow every charlatan, know what I mean! That’s the danger of the other side of being too skeptical or not skeptical enough. If it’s real though, I will go into it fully.
I used to also look at the child-molesting priests as evidence that celibacy for spiritual purposes is stupid. You’re right–suppression just is not the way. Once you start to say sex is bad, it becomes forbidden fruit and all the more enticing. What I’m doing is different. If I meet a woman, I can still have sex, for example, just that it will be loving (possibly leading to the valley orgasm), not the procreation-driven kind that leads to habituation (and jing loss).
I know it’s not your way, but it might be a valid alternative with less danger. I’ve talked a lot to the people on reuniting.info, and they seem very genuine and grounded, yet have had no experience with problems. Worst case scenario seems to just be a “relapse,” but that’s fine. If I want to have an orgasm, I can. I’ll just have to go through the cravings and withdrawals again, but a week of that isn’t so bad if she was worth it. 😉
The sexual side isn’t repressed, just redirected, not into sexual alchemy but other safe ways like love for others, creative pursuits, appreciation of life, etc. That’s the missing link, as I see it, and if priests could give up the idea of forbidden fruit and do this, there would be no more raping altar boys. Just that some people are probably too sick to really open up to love like that. Plus, the sex as sin ideology is far too entrenched. It’s sad.
Well, thanks for the warning. I will hopefully soon be healthy enough to start learning the sexual alchemy anyway. If the reuniting.info people are wrong, I’ll make sure to let you know.
Thanks for your help. I’m doing lying down versions of the Inner Smile and healing sounds. I don’t have my books with me (lots of stuff still in Chicago when I moved to where I am now), but I found instructions here:
http://www.universal-tao.com/article/the_inner_smile.html
It seems to combine five of the sounds with part of the Inner Smile, going in the elemental cycle of destruction. I wondered why destruction, not construction, but maybe because the sounds are about detox?
Well, may we both continue on our path of healing and forgive those who cannot understand!
Well, just by white-knuckling it, I seem to have broken through to the other side. After a week or so of extreme horniness, it went away! The people on reuniting.info say that orgasm isn’t a need like sleep; it just seems like it because most people don’t ever push past the stage of great cravings. I’ll still do the connection with earth meditations; you’re not the first person to recommend it to me, and being grounded is always a good thing. I definitely could use the cooling energy too, as I’m pretty hot, I think.
In a sense, living life “addicted” to orgasm is unnatural. Yes, nature programmed us that way, but it’s only to drive us to procreate, even if it’s not optimal in other ways like health or emotional well-being. If you break the cycle, you go back to a neuro-hormonal state closer to what it was like as a child, and your spiritual faculties open up. Makes sense, right? If it’s not in procreation-seeking mode, it’s free to explore other modes, as well as not losing all that jing.
As for us having a choice about whether to let other people’s negative emotions affect us, you are right. Easy to say, but hard to do, though! However, it can be done if you retrain your mind, and I think the key is to heal the part of myself that still needs to react. Let go of the anger, and fill up with the Inner Smile!
Swedich Dragon, yes, the acupuncturists said to stop sex completely, or at least for the course of the treatment. Maybe I will call them to ask what exactly they mean, but I’m thinking I’ll only bother them if I really need help. I’m not trying to reach advanced levels or anything, just prevent this loss. Other people, who seem trustworthy, on the reuniting.info site, have become non-orgasmic with no side effects, and they release energy into creative pursuits or love for their partner. It’s a natural safety valve, but I want to direct it toward healing instead. Nothing complex. That can wait until I have more energy and can find a teacher. I just thought someone here might know a way to help with the horniness, like redirect the sexual energy into the microcosmic orbit, but if not, no problem. Maybe there is no safe technique to learn without a teacher.
Thanks for the advice, Steven, but I really am not fixated. This is what I’m trying now, but I can always change things if it doesn’t work. Like maybe allow ejaculation once a month or something, though that doesn’t feel right to me right now. It seems like I’d be spending most of my energy fighting urges and being frustrated. I’m going for the complete celibacy because supposedly after a few weeks the brain switches out of its dopamine cycle, and the craving for orgasm goes way down.
You’re right that masturbation isn’t the problem. However, it is a significant energy loss, which I need to minimize along with everything else. Little energy losses, let alone big ones like ejaculation, do add up and make a difference.
I do agree with you that regular Chi Kung is good. I had to cut it out because just the physical part of it was too taxing. (e.g. standing up, moving the arms, etc.) I’ll start with the Inner Smile type stuff, lying down, doing the emotional work.
Swedich Dragon, I liked the other stuff you said too. About the low metabolism, yeah, it’d probably be good to have it worked on, but I can’t afford to see doctors anymore. Maybe if I get more energy, can work some, then I’ll go to that level, but right now, I have to find my own way. Luckily, I think it can be done. Lots of rest is the key, and you can’t fully rest with a lot of anger inside. My work is cut out for me.
Also, I used the million dollar point for many years, but gave it up. From experience, it just didn’t seem healthy, though luckily I had no problems from it like others did.
I too faced a lot of misunderstanding of my condition. People who’ve never experienced it can’t understand. Heck, I didn’t understand either for a long time, and I HAD it!
Wendy, thank you so much. I think you’re hitting the nail square on the head… and here I came just looking for a way to redirect horniness. I’ve been working a lot on the pent up anger, and your advice is coming at just the right time. It’s always felt like the anger was blocking other emotions like joy, serenity, and love, as well as preventing forgiveness and acceptance, and now you’ve given me a TCM-based explanation which makes a lot of sense. More importantly, I now have some tools to work on it with. You’re exactly right that there’s a part of me that allows others to hurt me. I’m a nice guy who doesn’t like to rock the boat, even when people are crossing my boundaries. I’ve been working on not doing that anymore, but the mechanism kicks in instantly. I kick myself afterwards, but hopefully with continued effort, I’ll change this pattern and start standing up for myself better. I forgive this side of me because I see it as a good quality just taken too far. The inner drill sergeant (as I call it) that you talked about before was a good quality taken too far too, but in its case, I converted it into an inner brother-disciple. Somewhere down the line, I decided that because in school or other forms of training, teachers were harsh and used punishment to help students excel, I should treat myself that way too, but even after I decided it was wrong, it took a long time to change. Now, instead of getting down on myself, I support myself on my journey. The whip changed to a comforting hand. Such a simple idea, but it took me years to figure out. (There was a further emotional lesson too and probably still more to come, but this message is already getting kinda long.) I think the anger remains and will remain as long as I still “give myself away” because it’s balancing it. Part of me (the liver?) doesn’t like that I do that. Once I stop, then the anger will no longer be needed. I’m currently angry at my parents for some things they did regarding my health and financial situation, but I know the anger isn’t really about them. I’ve been angry since high school (and I’m 37 now) and directed it toward whatever problem I had at the time, girlfriend, the world, an insensitive store clerk. It was never about them though, just my nice guy pattern. I held it in, and everyone thought I was the nicest person. Still do.
The nice guy pattern is playing out even in this message. A lot of people would get mad at what Steven said and say something like, “You don’t know me! You can’t know if I have OCD or not!” but I don’t do things like that. I try to see the good in others, ignore the fact that he might’ve crossed a boundary a little bit by getting harsh on someone he doesn’t know, and just try to find the good in his words. I think that’s still good to do, and it’s okay to forgive insignificant boundary crossings like that, trying not to be overly sensitive. It’s just the bigger ones, where there’s no love behind it at all, where I’m still the same way… or if it wasn’t just words on the screen but harsh in person, then I need to stand up more. (So Steven, don’t worry. I had no problem with your harshness, despite all I just said. It’s just an example of what I’m talking about that happened to happen here.)
Wendy, I’ll try your exercise and see what wisdom my body has to say. Maybe there’s a reason why it’s still so hard for me to stand up for myself despite needing to so badly. I’m pretty sure that’s the root of my anger. It was a mystery for a long time, and like I said (and you foresaw), I didn’t even know it existed. I used to be angry at CFS and how it “ruined” my life, but I got over that. It’s just sadness now but also gratitude for bringing me back to my heart’s path.
Thanks for all the great advice, guys. (And sorry about the accidental double post.) First, what does QF3&4 mean? Sorry, I’m not familiar with these abbreviations.
Second, yeah, I guess from the tone of my post, it might sound like I’m worrying, but I think that was just because I’ve been two weeks abstinent and was having a moment of fairly strong craving. Emotionally, I don’t think I’m worrying too much. I’d just hold off a week, then indulge. Then last week, I found the reuniting.info website, where a lot of people have become non-orgasmic, so I was inspired to finally give it up. I really do feel greatly drained afterwards for sometimes several days. It’s not good, and so many acupuncturists have sensed it and told me I MUST stop. It’s time I took their advice. I’ve read the Taoist advice about how often for sick people and winter vs. summer, but I think with my condition, every ejaculation harms the healing process. I saw some very good TCM doctors, and each one said the same thing. They just knew! And in terms of naturopathy, every little stress to the system needs to be cut out. Some patients who weren’t healing only did so once they stopped talking on the phone. Little things like that matter, so big things like regular ejaculation are probably more important. CFS is a unique disease, I think, because it’s a weakening of the adrenal (kidney chi) system. It takes energy to heal, but the body can’t heal if energy is being used up elsewhere, like to detoxify, deal with stress, or rebuild semen.
Wendy, I think you are very right about anger. Ten years ago, I was already sick for eight years, and I probably wasn’t aware of my anger. Since then I’ve done a lot of spiritual training and soul searching, so I’m aware of it. I’m working on it, but it’s very hard. Any advice on this will be greatly appreciated!
The other part, about being hard on myself… VERY true too! But luckily I have made great progress in that regard, and I believe it is no longer an issue. Took me eighteen years, but I finally did it. CFS was a gift in many ways, not just this one.
Dog, your advice is very good too, and I’ve already been doing most of it. I don’t look at porn, and know the power of nature and the earth. I just started doing a similar loving practice (Glenn Morris, Secret Smile), and will incorporate yours. Swedich Dragon, I think the Secret Smile is similar enough to the Inner Smile technique you mention, so I will do it instead, since my Mantak Chia books aren’t currently with me. Wendy, do you think this is the key to breaking the cycle of my anger? I’m at the point where I accept the anger and am okay with it. Now I just have to forgive the others and accept them for who they are, which I already do in my head. My heart is what won’t do it yet, and maybe the loving heart meditations will help that process along?
Herb-wise, I think I’m doing okay. I used to take Goji (both juice and dried berries) and may do so again. I’ve tried Chinese herbs in the past under many different doctors, and currently, I’m following a naturopathic program.
Oh, and Swedich Dragon, I already know I have a low metabolism. I used to take my temperature like that when I was working with a natural healing MD (not many of those around!), but it’s always been below normal ever since I was a kid. I took different thyroid hormones for awhile for it, but now I think I just have to heal and balance the general system. The body knows what to do, just needs help. I’ve eliminated most stress, moved to the mountains (Crestone, CO), eat right (Weston Price’s research), take adrenal supplements, pulled out two root canal teeth, etc. Now it’s time to tackle the anger and masturbation jing loss. I also get bored and deplete shen by using the computer too much, but I think as the anger lessens and the love increases, it will be easier to let go of the craving for both masturbation and using the computer. They’re both escapes, but if I’m content to just be, I will no longer need to escape.
Once again, thanks for the great advice. It’s helped a lot, all of it really, but especially the parts about anger and love. I’d still like advice on redirecting the sexual energy, as I’m really committed to abstinence now. Aren’t there techniques for beginners that don’t require personal instruction from a teacher? I’ll be doing my best based on what I’ve read so far in different books and online, so maybe just tips and pointers? My feeling is that I just have to get the basics down and do the training every day, not just once in awhile. Straight spine. Sink the breath. Control the thoughts. Those are the basics. Then the visualizations can be started which will begin to open the microcosmic orbit channels, which the sexual energy can then go into instead of going down and out.
