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Yo Dog
couple of days ago I posted a detailed comment about this product.
I thought it was a neutral perspective about the product from inside the industry perspective.
after one day it got deleted…WTF?
thanks for asking.
Craig
I thought I would pipe in since my comments about belly dance were what drew out Michaels response.
In discussing these things it is useful to know what you mean by “belly dance”.
What I mean by belly dance is sometimes called, american tribal style, tribal fusion, tribaret (tribal+caberet). It is characterized by more elaborate costuming loosely based on tribal costume which includes long skirts, a lot of heavy jewelry, midriff barring “cholly” tops and more. More often performed in small groups than solo. Often including improvisational solos with the “chorus” backing up the solo artist.
Caberet style or Egyptian style is usually done as a solo and usually involves skimpy custumes. I find that this style is usually lacking in “juice”. It is smooth but not full of energy.
If you have seen different tai chi players you know that some styles or some players have less power, or intensity or energy in their movements. I find this to be the case with dancers as well. As a generalization the caberet style is not focused in on intense movements or fine hand positions. I find that the best “tribal” style dancers work involves really good structure especially in the hand and arm positions. good structure makes the difference between mediocre and …wow!!!
The accepted high priestess in the pantheon of tribal dance is Rachel Brice. I recommend you start on youtube with a search by her name watch some of her stuff. following related links should give you a good exposure to what the tribal dance scene is all about. She does things with her body which truly need to be seen to be believed.
I am not an expert on this subject, I just see it from my perspective which is colored mostly by the physical culture of asian martial arts / chi kung. Those who know more may correct my misplaced terminology on this subject.
The overall concept of “body mastery” is an important one. Which path is taken to achieve body mastery can vary, but this is part of what we are all after, and so admire when we see it. I admire it in someone who has studied ballet for ten years or belly dance, taekwon do or Tai Chi.
Finally I think there is something within tribal belly dance which taps into a primal source and can therefore be tremendously empowering to women. I am not sure if it would be empowering in the same way for a man, but I have also heard women talk about how good this or that male instructor is. As for me, I too have been thinking about ways to transmit chikung concepts and intent into belly dance. My wife is heavily involved in BD and also Yoga, and one of our best friends teaches BD and it seems like I am acquainted with a lot of the people in portland who are in this subculture.
Craig
Stephan
When I read your post the first thing that came to my mind was something I learned from my teacher in the context of learning about Chi healing.
The question was asked “What type of practice do you need to do in order to protect yourself from negative influence when you are working on people.”His answer was “nothing”. “If you are thinking this way your spirit is already gone.”
Perhaps this can apply in your situation. You are perceiving peoples negative energy as “poisoning” you. Maybe a perspective shift is on order? Perhaps what you are perceiving is there, and always was there but you are only now noticing the energy dynamics, the the energy exchange which is part of all we do. All communication is an exchange of energy.
I believe the Fusion practice will help also. For now I suggest along the same lines as voice. Work on standing practice and strengthening the body. Also work on strengthening your center, connection with the Tantien. MWinn’s practice of Ocean breathing can be a profound exploration of your energy body. Expanding and contracting from the tantien can teach you more about your energetic boundaries. Perhaps such an exercise could be helpful to push your energy out and make you feel more impermeable.
Also MWinn’s practice of tossing out the sick chi may be a good quick fix in this situation. When you feel poisoned go somewhere and use your energy fingers to comb out your body and toss out the sick chi. I believe this is on the Chikung fundamentals DVD, or maybe CKF 2.Good luck and with continued practice as you have described you should transcend this dynamic easily.
Chi eers
Craig
Stephan
When I read your post the first thing that came to my mind was something I learned from my teacher in the context of learning about Chi healing.
The question was asked “What type of practice do you need to do in order to protect yourself from negative influence when you are working on people.”His answer was “nothing”. “If you are thinking this way your spirit is already gone.”
Perhaps this can apply in your situation. You are perceiving peoples negative energy as “poisoning” you. Maybe a perspective shift is on order? Perhaps what you are perceiving is there, and always was there but you are only now noticing the energy dynamics, the the energy exchange which is part of all we do. All communication is an exchange of energy.
I believe the Fusion practice will help also. For now I suggest along the same lines as voice. Work on standing practice and strengthening the body. Also work on strengthening your center, connection with the Tantien. MWinn’s practice of Ocean breathing can be a profound exploration of your energy body. Expanding and contracting from the tantien can teach you more about your energetic boundaries. Perhaps such an exercise could be helpful to push your energy out and make you feel more impermeable.
Also MWinn’s practice of tossing out the sick chi may be a good quick fix in this situation. When you feel poisoned go somewhere and use your energy fingers to comb out your body and toss out the sick chi. I believe this is on the Chikung fundamentals DVD, or maybe CKF 2.Good luck and with continued practice as you have described you should transcend this dynamic easily.
Chi eers
Craig
I will light a candle to illuminate my context further.
First of all excuse my haste but I initially confused you with Digdug…..please accept my apology (deep bow).
I was cryptically referencing what I really wanted to say which is – I don’t think all this talk about the war, war crimes, war profitteering, criminal elite conspirators, etc really belongs on this discussion board. More than a little off topic if you ask me. Others perhaps would disagree, but when I want to engage this material I look to other sources not a “Taoist Discussion Forum”.
Having said that I know this forum has covered most every topic under the sun from time to time, as I have lurked here regularly for lo these many years (you might replace regularly with obsessively).
PS, I really loved the proverb and my question was entirely rhetorical.
Peace and Respect Dog.
Craig
So Dog
Very apt proverb to be applied to the discussion involving Alexander, Intelligence et al.
Which are you choosing?
Which one is “Intelligence” choosing?
Which is Alexander?I know my opinion. But it is only that I will not curse the darkness by sharing it.
Craig
Intelligence
It seems obvious that you are having an intellectual issue with regards to the 5 phases.
It is my suggestion that you start back somewhere closer to the beginning and study the 5 phases within your body.
Can you differentiate the 5 phases working within the body? Can you sense any of the internal organ systems? If you doubt the validity of “Lung Chi/Metal Chi” I seems unlikely that it will be possible for you to accept the possibility of a higher resonance/Octave of Metal Chi outside of your body.
I have not done Greatest Kan/Li. However given the way you have presented yourself I do not sense that you have even absorbed the lessons of Fusion of the 5 elements.
Your intellect alone will not solve the 10,000 questions Mr. Intelligence.
Perhaps the planet is merely a symbol for the higher octave of Metal Chi at the solar system level. I suggest you surrender your intellectual questions and EXPERIENCE the PROCESS. However with so many doubts and frustrations about the method to enter into the process it seems that to experience this level may be difficult.Or are you just sniping at the system as a whole in an indirect way? Your approach lacks a certain tone of respect, to say the least.
Regards
Craig
Max
I haven’t followed this stuff very closely lately.
The information presented by Duesberg, et al is quite compelling in several ways.Number one is that proper scientific protocols of Hypothesis proof have not been followed.
Proper epidemiological studies have not been carried out. And the epidemiological evidence which is present throws off all sorts of noise which creates questions that no one has yet answered.Since this video you linked to is 10 years old give or take, where does the research of Duesberg and his critics stand at this point in time? Do you know.
It seems that there would have been some attempt from some quarters to scientifically refute his allegations.What do you know about what has transpired since this documentary came out in 1996?
Craig
Max
I must say that this most recent post of yours is refreshingly clear in it’s expression of your critique of the HT system, or any cultivation system.
Look for the results is your demand. I quite agree.
No matter what system I think some will get it, and some won’t.
Perhaps there are limitations to any approach.
This most recent expression does seem more reasonable than earlier expressions which seemed to paint the whole HT system ala M.Chia and M.Winn as completely devoid of merit and actually wholly harmful. Perhaps you never meant that, but that was an impression I got from reading your posts.
On one level I know you agree that some/many HT practices are potentially beneficial.
On another level I think you have the opinion that the ultimate result of this type of alchemical cultivation is a dead end. It is difficult to know, surely more so for beginners.All I can say is that what I know of the HT methods can lead to results which are quite beneficial. Whether they ultimately will result in achieving certain high level goals is perhaps an impossible question to answer.
I appreciate your candor. Critique is healthy. Especially when in the spirit of kindness and concern.
Question for anyone doing cultivation. What are your results?
It is worth self reflection and course correction.
Craig
I think that Jernej prefers to be cryptic and obscure.
It is possible that there may be some meaning in the things he says.
As a native english speaker I must say that it is through no limitation in your English that you arrive at an inability to discern what Jernej is trying to say.
He seems to be emitting fragments of whole ideas through the lens of a different native tongue and perhaps a poetic inclination.
Or he just might be completely bonkers. No offense Jernej, sometimes I enjoy your posts, but usually I really don’t know what you are saying, or only 5% or 10% of it makes any sense at all.
By the way Wendy, your post was really one of the most funny I have read in months!
Really. I don’t know if you intended that, but thanks for the laugh.Smiles
Craig
First of all I agree wholeheartedly about the benefits of self medication through chikung therapy!
I lent my opinions with the clearly stated position that I work in the “nutriceuticals” industry, but that this approach was not the ideal. Your description of working with a qualfied practitioner and/or doing Chikung yourself is the idea situation.
Knowing the ideal, I also embrace the practical aspect of short term herb or herb formula use. This should be guided by your personal dialogue with your own body/energy/spirit systems.Clarification on Tribulus.
When I say extract in this case I mean – Standardized Herbal extract – which come primarily in powder form and then are put into capsules tablets etc.
So Tribestan is an extract powder put into the delivery system of an enteric coated capsule in order to maintain the integrity of the actives within the Tribulus.
This is in contrast to some who sell Bulgarian tribulus powder which has no science to support it, and some even contend that in that form it would be difficult for your body to process and perhaps even cause some problems. (I take that last with a grain of salt because it is an opinion found on a bodybuilding website which tends to lay it on a little thick with hyperbole while hyping the product they are supporting.)
So Tribestan is an extract in powder form put into a capsule. Other powdered extracts are available and if they are standardized only to saponins they are probably from China and India and are in my opinion of little to no worth.
Tribulus powder (not extract) from Bulgaria is something I have taken with some minor effect, but I cannot really recommend it. I even expressed my dismay to dragonherbs over the fact that along with their high quality products (my studied opinion) they also offered what I consider an inferior tribulus product.
I did encounter a very good liquid extract of tribulus one time, but it is not a company which the public can buy at this point. Though very good.This should clarify my earlier reccomendation.
Craig
First of all see my earlier disclaimer.
Second, if I were taking this formula there are several questions I would want answered.
A. What are the MG dosages of each item.
B. What form are the items in – powder, extract, standardized extract?
C. How are the products tested for quality(if at all).Most of these items are well known for traditional uses, but if used in the form of herb powders may be much less effective, including some which are typically used only in extract form.
Panax Ginseng, Ginseng. Usually effective in any form from powder to highly concentrated extract. Quality can vary by wide margins
American Ginseng, Same as Panax above. American ginseng has the benefit of having a neutral to cool energetic designation as opposed to Panax which is warming or heating in effect.
Damiana, Botanical name – Turnera aphrodisiaca – name speaks for itself. Good stimulating sexual tonic. Extract would be better. Powder can be very ineffective expcept in large doses.
Pumpkin Seed, – source of zinc. Powder subject to spoilage/oxidation because of fatty acid content.
Epimedium brevicornium, – aka Horny goat weed. chinese name I think is Yin yang hou.
has become famous as sexual tonic in the west lately. Standardized extracts are the norm, but powder is cheap and probably not terribly effective. significant precedent for raw herb use in chinese herbalism to support this.Avena Sativa, – Wild Oats – Used for decades in Europe as sexual tonic.
Chrysin (bioflavonoid), Very potent bioflavonoid, also used as a potentiator for certain bodybuilding tonics. quite expensive ingredient. This is really a purified chemical and just barely a natural product in my view.
Saw Palmetto, The much praised and maligned Saw Palmetto. Good science on this product is only on POTENT extracts of @ 90% Free fatty acids extract. Anything else is just filler in my mind.
Grape Seed, Grape seed extract is an antioxidant source (Polyphenols, anthocyanidins)
grape seed powder would be also just filler.Pygeum Bark, often seen in conjuntion with saw palmetto for prostate issues – BPH. Some good science in Europe for the extract. Powder would be much less probable to have any effect.
Nettle Root, 3rd ingredient seen in prostate formulae. Nettle root powder has good reputation even in non extract form.
Ginkgo Biloba, – well known circulatory aid, primarily seen for improved brain function as it has been shown to increase circulation to the brain more than other areas of the body, but also seen in libido formulae on the theory that it improves all circulation. If this is just a powder it is laughable, I would hope he used an extract standardized to 24% and 6% as is the worldwide industry standard for effective ginkgo biloba.
Griffonia Simplicifolia Seed, EXtract of this seed yield 5HTP 5 hydroxytryptophan, the only currently legal form of tryptophan available in the US currently.
Mucuna Pruriens, Indian herb, which extract is standardized for content of Levadopa. Personally I have been very surprised that this product never received any scrutiny from the FDA as L-Dopa is a potent pharmacuetical drug. Mucuna extract can be had and not too expensive with as much as 40% L-Dopa. This seems to have some sort of Jing tonic effect, though I don’t know enough about the science of this one to comment further.
Tribulus Terrestris, – See comments posted to Michael about this herb. I like it, but to take it in only powder form is at best a waste of time, and at worst an input into the body which is difficult to process.
Pine Nut, – Food. No other info from me.
Water Melon Seeds, Same as Pine nuts.Mexican Wild Yam, Source of Dioscorea which was the precursor to the first birth control hormone. Earliest BC pill was made from Wild yam. it is good that he identified the wild yam as Mexican because this differentiates it from the much less potent wild yam from China. Even in powder form a good source of hormone precursors.
Herba Cistanchis , Jing tonic mentioned earlier by M.Winn. mostly seen only in chinese medicine until recently, now appearing in western sexual tonics. goog agreement in chinese medicine for this purpose.
Eurycoma longifolia. – aka Tongkat ali, Longjack. Newly discovered in the west this herb most common in Indonesia, but also found in Thailand is supposed to be a very strong sexual tonic. It is my strong belief that the majority of material on the market is mislabbeled and not true Eurycoma, and therefore not effective. Even reviews I have read on this item from verifiable sources are not strong in praising it’s effects. This should be in extract form 100:1 extract is commonly referenced.
In summary I would as a consumer like to see a lot more details on product I would be injesting.
On the other hand, I have heard some positive feed back on the use of Dr Lins formulae on the Tao Forums.
This is just a nuetral analysis of what i know on each herb in short and what quality issues may be there in light of the ambiguity of labelling.
Unclear labelling is a loophole you can drive a truck through as I have tried to point out.Craig
They chickened out!
the figured out that you would be speaking truth and THEY CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH.
Too bad though could’ve been fun.
Good luck on your next media event!
Craig
1. I don’t know specifically anything about Dr Lin’s formulae.
2. I am not an herbalist. My expertise is within the supply side of the natural products industry and I have therefore some insight on quality issues as well as some on application, but by no means am I qualified to analyze traditional formulae.
3. If you can post a list of herbs I might be able to comment on some aspects that are known to me.Humbly yours
Craig
