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Hi everyone –
I’ve appended here an article by the distinguished magician (kabbalist, druid, sacred geometrist, etc.) John Michael Greer on the coming phase of what we continue to call ‘civlization’. I find him absolutely spot on, and the direction he is marking out is one I’m planning to go in.
I’d be interested in the comments of fellow boardmembers on this very important issue.
Find Greer’s blog here – http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/
Best to all, NN
I find this piece to be a very negative focus, based essentially on the idea that consciousness is not being raised. Why can’t he think of other possibilities? Why does he think there is no will or choice/intention involved? Why is he trying to convince us to believe that the same old negative momentum of the past is going to continue?
I do not believe we have to be “realistic” and see us declining. It is as if he is trying to prove to others that the only rational view to take is a very limited, struggle-filled one. He seems to want to ignore facts such as that we have alternative energy technology already and could be using that. He leads us to believe that he is offering a sensible alternative to the two extremes he is familiar with but really his view is no different.
I categorize this as dis-information. Do any of us really want to entertain this possible picture of reality? Do any of us want to believe that having greater vision with intention cannot create a more fulfilling future? He is asking us to continue to earth segregated from the spiritual realm, which is exactly the opposite of what we do here in daoism. He is asking us to compromise ourselves and continue to accept fear as the guiding force of humanity. And if it is true that a new earth is being born and that another or other versions of earth will be available for those who want lower vibrational versions to live on, and if our choices and our spiritual work really matter, then who here is going to visualize and energize his awful version of a reality to move into?
I’d rather take the chance that we have choice and see what happens.
-Alexander
… are you suggesting that raising consciousness will somehow manufacture more oil? Food? Stop the icecaps melting? This ‘new earth’ you speak of is not a *physical* place. The physical earth is where we are, and it is here that the changes will occur. The lives of many people will be lost, ruined, changed radically… do you suggest that the right thing to do at this point is escape into the astral or something?? For sure the *physical* earth, and our life upon it, have rhythms that must proceed as they proceed, and these don’t simply turn on a dime. Not sure what you mean by this ‘new earth being born’, and the ‘lower vibrational versions’… could you explain further? How does this fit into Taoist philosophy?
Are you somehow equating greater consciousness with the use of alternative physical fuels?! As far as those fuels are concerned, Greer has investigated them of course, me too. I am not convinced that the kind of lifestyle we enjoy in the West will be sustained by their use. We can debate that if you want, assuming it’s considered suitable debating material for a board like this one. But even if by some miracle the perfect replacement for oil is found, this has nothing to do with the raising of consciousness!
Nor do I see this issue as having anything to do with the *future* segregation of the earth from the spiritual realm. The changes in progress are part of what needs to be done to *reconnect* earth to spirit. It is a matter of the earth having to correct the damage we have already done, combined with the resource base of our culture drying up. One cannot escape the fact that the earth will not support everybody on it. There is going to be a great deal of plain old human pain and misery in the years ahead.
For sure if everyone forgot all of their differences there would be political will to change, just as if everyone suddenly became a breatharian there would be no need for food! But I do not think these things will occur.
No spiritual work will avoid it – we are physical beings out of step with physical nature, with each other, with *truth*, and we are about to be reminded of the fact. It is nothing to do with thought forms. Therefore it is nothing to do with what any one of us might ‘want to believe’, as you put it. To me such ideas are similar to the ones that drive priests to commit suicide, all the time believing they are walking on water!
And as for the idea that Greer is asking us to give in to fear, I disagree profoundly. The fearful response to the situation is to pretend it isn’t happening and take refuge in fantasy. The courageous and spiritual response is to accept the truth of what is in front of us and do what we can to ameliorate the situation. We do indeed ‘have a choice’ – look at the road in front of us, or stick our heads in the sand. So I do not understand what you mean when you ask,
>>Why does he think there is no will or choice/intention involved?… exactly the opposite of what we do here in daoism<<
– he doesn't say that anywhere in his piece!
What he is talking about is the natural cycle of human existence – as he says, the most predictable thing about civilizations is that they do decline, and in a perfectly predictable manner. No more than we can (by 'will') remove the seasons from their natural order, make the west wind blow northward, or exchange our livers for our amygdalas, can we escape natural physical destiny – that destiny *is* our will. What is happening to our civilization *is* our will. We *chose* it. The rise and fall of civilizations is rhythmical just as the seasons are rhythmical, and this for certain is 'the momentum of the past', as you put it – but why do you assume that it is negative? Isn't it responsible for everything we experience in the physical plane? Why get caught up in what is good or bad – is that the Daoist way? Not from what I have heard!
Daoism, as I have so far understood it, is about greater *alignment* with such rhythms and forces. It is not about commanding them out of their natural way so as to save us from our own stupidity! That way lies disaster, and human past shows it. Human *present* shows it!
Of course spirituality will help us to roll with the changes, ameliorate the situation, give us wisdom and health and sanity, wake us up from our various trances of lonely invincibility, keep the flame of truth alive, allow us to reconnect with nature, our true selves, reality, and with all that makes like interesting, worthwhile and meaningful. But, even if there were enough spiritual power in our race to halt the rise of the seas (which I don't think there is), that kind of interference with natural human destiny is not going to occur. Please see what happened to New Orleans!
It is like the book of changes would have us understand. A new period is dawning. We remain, but the circumstances of our lives change, as the seasons change. Who can change with them? He is the superior (wo-)man!
Greer's piece to me is in fact extremely *optimistic*, giving a point of view that we need depend on no-one but ourselves to make our lives easier in this trying time. One thing is for certain: God is not going to jump out of the machine and save us from our mistakes. It's up to us to be realistic, to be awake, and not to confuse spirituality with a fantasy of ultimate power. That is not merely optimisim, it is also wisdom I think. The ability to learn from mistakes and wake up to reality beyond illusion is precisely wisdom!
For this reason my recent spiritual direction has been focussed on what spirituality can do *practically* to help the situation.
"Do not ask to have everything that happens happen as you wish, but wish for everything to happen as it actually does happen, and your life will be serene."
– Epictetus.
(although I am sure there are many Lao Tzu quotes that will do just as well – I choose a western one in the interests of global unity!)
Best NN
Greer’s message to his fellow druids – what do Taoists say to this?
– this is from the essay I linked to in my previous post – should be read in full, but what do you say to this bit Alexander?
>>>
Some people may claim that such proposals are morally repugnant because they accept the unacceptable. These criticisms miss the point. Drivers do everything they can to avoid a crash, but there are situations in which one can’t be avoided; thus we have protective devices such as seatbelts to help mitigate the effects of a crash. There’s an important difference between a crash in which the car is destroyed but the passengers walk away, and a crash in which the passengers are thrown through the windshield head first. The same principle applies here and now. It’s impossible at this point to prevent the industrial age from ending, and the best guess of many experts is that it’s impossible at this point to manage a controlled transformation to sustainability, even if modern societies had the political will and leadership in place to do so — which they clearly don’t. That means we face a future of crisis and uncontrolled decline. Yet when prevention is impossible, mitigation may still be an option, and in the present situation I believe that it’s the only option that makes moral or practical sense.
Nor are all possible deindustrial societies of the future equal. It’s possible to have a cultured, literate, relatively humane society with thriving cities and a vigorous exchange economy on a very limited resource basis. During the Tokugawa period (1603-1868), Japan closed its borders to the outside world in a successful effort to keep from being swallowed by European colonial empires. With few natural resources, Tokugawa Japan ran almost entirely on human muscle power. Yet this was one of the great periods of Japanese art, literature and philosophy; literacy was so widespread that the three largest cities in the country had 1500 bookstores among them, and most people had access to basic education, health care, and the necessities of life. Helping to foster the birth of such a society in the aftermath of the industrial age is a goal within reach, and one that resonates profoundly with the ideals and traditions of Druidry.
<<
– he makes the point elsewhere of course that it resonates with other traditions too. I believe that in the past Taoism has been amongst those movements that foresaw decline and planted seeds in difficult ('interesting'!) times which bore fruit later on. Perhaps in a certain way this site and the teachings on it might be regarded as fruits like that.
NN
im hearing both NN and Alexander and respect their views.
my feeling is that despite the increasing destruction that humnans are inflicting on the earth, the earth needs usi have been told by 2 seperate people at different times and who did not know each other, that I am from another planet. one was a psychic and the other was my master looking at me through his third eye. (they both told me the same thing)
apart from freaking the crap out of me, i wondered, why would my spirit incarnate here?
i realised my spirit needs and wants this experience here on this amazing planet, it is so uniquly beautiful, possibly the most diverse planet (garden) in the universeit’s obvious to me that the earth NEEDS us as much as we need her. just like our bodies need billions of bacteria to survive, the earth needs us for it’s fullfillment.
i worry about the stresses humans place apon the earth, overpopulation , polution etc, but ………….i dunno, somehow the earth is in control of it all still, patiently hoping we will change before she has to get rid of a large proportion of us, to make us wake up to what we are doing.
for what it’s worth, back in march this year, i was in the front row of a jimmy cliff concert in melbourne. while he sang his song ‘save our planet earth’, i smiled to the earth, and, no shit, felt a real recognition comming back from the earth something like she was saying ‘thanks for appreciating me’. it felt really good
no question that ther are potientially gnarly times ahead, but to me, our responsibility is to maintain our integrity, to appreciate and respect the earth and each other and ride through the changes with …………..i dunno how to say it other than ‘sincerity of heart’
i just watched an interview with steve irwins’ wife, and she said there’s always a positve in everything , even in what looks to be a tradgedy.
sorry if i’m starting to ramble now, but…………………..just……….never give up, keep smiling to the earth and to each other.
thanks
For your words.
Of *course* you are correct about never giving up! Did I really seem to be advocating that? – my attitude is the complete opposite…
Giving up on humanity? On the earth?
NEVER!
But giving up on this particular industrial civilization and the idea of its indefinite existence?
Giving up on the fantasy of infinite increase, when we all know that the hexagram following increase is bound to be decrease?
Giving up on our current gigantic polluting warlike growth and – not only recognising the need for change – but actively engaging with it, starting the healing and remedial processes now, and looking forward with confidence instead of back with regret or straight upward in blind faith?
ABSOLUTELY!
Nothing I said recommended alarm or despondency! – of course one might react that way, but that is the choice of the individual.
We *are* bound to the earth’s fate. But do not mistake me. The process of rebalancing the imbalances we have engendered cannot be avoided – it has already begun. Why would anyone suggest that integrity, appreciation and respect for the earth and for each other, and ‘sincerity of heart’, have to be sacrificed, just because MacDonald’s and Chevrolet have to be sacrificed???
Obviously the truth is far otherwise. Now is when we find out how many people can still smile to each other and to the earth, and be sincere, when things are not so pretty. That’s the test! How much can we truly look after ourselves and each other? Spirituality in this phase must have practical results, so I believe.
You may have been from another planet Mat, but you’re here now aren’t you? Damn right you’re needed – everyone is, and aware people most of all. We can do more than the average person if we truly have the greater wisdom, courage, health and effectiveness that spring from our spiritual practices. Now is when those attributes are likely to be most needed.
Giving up hope? Why, on earth – when it is more necessary now?
best, NN
PS Don’t forget to read the second essay I posted, the one Greer addressed to his fellow druids. Thanks!
For the most part a nice artical. It felt pretty grounded. I am suprised that a mystic talked nothing of prayer. Indead the old way is to try to change things just in the physical realm but this is not a holistic approach. I think Bruce has got it nailed down. What have all the masters told us to do? The potential for a peacful earth is already there, we choose to go in that direction or not. I do not know how the spirits do what they do but I trust that if I accept them and I communicate with them they will perform the magic. It is a team effort. The team is just waiting for your free will. More and More spirits are operating on new energy and new commands for peace. So I do not know how but I do know what. That what is world balance, inner balance. So I stand for what I am about, for acceptance, and free will. We will never have fusion as energy untill the scientist and society are ready for it. SO lets help them, pray, use or inner smile. Stand up for acceptance, and free will. There will be those that who choose to stay in the old patterns. Thats ok its there choose.
NN, i didn’t say or mean that you sugested giving up, i know you never would.
i just meant that a lot of people i talk to simply say that this is unavoidable fate and that this physical realm is nothing more than some transient distraction that we must transcend as soon as possible.
it was more thinking of those people that i meant ‘never give up’.
########Giving up on the fantasy of infinite increase, when we all know that the hexagram following increase is bound to be decrease?
Giving up on our current gigantic polluting warlike growth and – not only recognising the need for change – but actively engaging with it, starting the healing and remedial processes now, and looking forward with confidence instead of back with regret or straight upward in blind faith?
ABSOLUTELY#######
yeah, i know, it’s rediculously unsustainable at the moment, and most people would rather put their head in the sand and deny it.
##You may have been from another planet Mat,##
well, that’s what they told me. it was the most disturbing thing i had ever heard, i felt like a damn freak, but hey, what ever. what matters is HERE AND NOW
##but you’re here now aren’t you?##
yep, and i’m not goin’ anywhere in a hurry, this place is too good
##Damn right you’re needed – everyone is, and aware people most of all. We can do more than the average person if we truly have the greater wisdom, courage, health and effectiveness that spring from our spiritual practices. Now is when those attributes are likely to be most needed.##
it’s encouraging and inspiring to here that.
i suppose to those who are hellbent on screwing this planet, all i can say is ‘forgive them lord, they know not what they do’
It is true that there are alot of people clamming to be one thing yet scared to to that same thing. Like a chief that will not go into the kitchen because the kitchens to hot. This is another reason why I like these taoist practices because you train your self to accept the shadows. You grow a flower out of the manure. You transform the chi field.
Don’t worry Mat, most of us are coming from far, we all are a bunch of freaks gathered in this time/space zone to witness and in the best case to make a difference.
We are here to embrace earth and to honor her, as she is breast feeding so many different life forms. Yes this place is sooo good!
This is a little more complicated than I want to get right now, N. But thanks for the invitation. I will say only a few things about it.
First, my intention was to establish a balance to what the article said. It really turned me off and that is a sign to me of where it is coming from. What empties you of positive current will create for you nasty experiences. Our energy follows our thoughts. That’s how we create reality.
I believe we are going to change in radical ways. But in good ways and not through the horrors he imples. And I believe that it will be a different process for different people. Consciousness is at the root of all things. It determines how things change or stay the same and what happens “to you.” I do not see us using oil anymore. We have had fully functional hydrogen cell technology for fifty years. Something like that can be implemented. Picture a positive possiblity here instead – despite what your head tells you to believe.
Many cultures of the past as well as some of our people now believe that this earth is growing fast and that as the energies speed up over the next few years people of different vibrational levels will find themselves on the planet of their resonance. Those of us with fear will find ourselves on a planet pretty similar to this one. Those of us who have transmuted most or all of it will end up on a level much higher. This is what daoism is about. We do the practices to transmute ourselves so there is only love left. We are love. That is “going home.” Don’t ask how. Trust the Driver.
We are all too quick with our big brains to determine what is possible and impossible. We undoubtedly think too much and believe we can think ahead to see how we can CONTINUE to control things and MAKE them be alright. The universe will figure all this out, not us. I know that creativity occurs when the normal thinking stops and that is the purpose of meditation – to bring yourself into the space between the notes. That’s when the magic happens. Through silent alignment, not thinking and all its drama.
If you were lifted to a higher more inspired place by the piece, I am glad it worked for you. It did the opposite for me. It feels heavy in tone and depressing. Like I said, if something raises your vibe you are creating in alignment with the source and positively. If you feel bad, you are mis-creating – out of alignment.
As for this:
“…the best guess of many experts is that it’s impossible at this point to manage a controlled transformation to sustainability, even if modern societies had the political will and leadership in place to do so — which they clearly don’t. That means we face a future of crisis and uncontrolled decline.”
I am much more interested in the workings of the dao and its spontaneous creativity than I am in the best guesses of human experts. To my mind, it is clearly faulty to believe that we can think our way out of this when it was acting from our thinking that got us into it. Acting from our thinking instead of from inner attunement is deadly. And we have the world to prove it. As we grow in consciousness we allow more and control less, and answers to “unsolvable” problems are presented for us. I experience this as the way things work when we step out of the way, bow to the dao and allow. That is what daoism is to me. That effortless attitude, wuwei, which implies letting it be done for us with minimal external motion, because we are in alignment.
I’ll give you a quote now to end with too.
Do you know who Jeffrey Yuen is? I admire him greatly. He is an 88th generation daoist priest who has a healing practice (D.O.M.) in NY and travels to teach about classical chinese medicine. I have taken in four of his lectures and spoken with him a little. He is very pure.
He talks a lot about intention and creating. He said (paraphrasing), “Always focus on intention. When you ask ‘how’ you put yourself in a state of doubt.”
Love and Blessings, Alexander
Except for the first couple of lines which I obviously don’t concur with, your statement is beautiful! -A
>>It felt pretty grounded.<>I am suprised that a mystic talked nothing of prayer.<>Indead the old way is to try to change things just in the physical realm but this is not a holistic approach.<>What have all the masters told us to do? The potential for a peacful earth is already there, we choose to go in that direction or not.<>I do not know how the spirits do what they do but I trust that if I accept them and I communicate with them they will perform the magic. It is a team effort. The team is just waiting for your free will. More and More spirits are operating on new energy and new commands for peace.<<
Yes they are. You think they are against what Greer is saying? Not the ones I know, and I know quite a few!
Neither I nor Greer are talking about anything but common sense. If there is an energy shortage, we need to be able to cope and to help each other. That's all, that's it!
NN
>>this physical realm is nothing more than some transient distraction that we must transcend as soon as possible.<>i suppose to those who are hellbent on screwing this planet, all i can say is ‘forgive them lord, they know not what they do'<<
You and I are amongst those people, it's everyone in the industrialized world that's doing it!
Just remember two things:
1. The earth will NEVER be permanently screwed because of ANYTHING we do – she can look after herself. It is much more a question of whether she can look after us, and of defining the 'us' she looks after.
2. We are all in this TOGETHER. Good intentions notwithstanding, the system contains these mysterious 'enemies' of the earth and it contains us too. We are all depending on each other.
NN
– this article obviously was not intended for someone like you. I respect that.
But I must say one thing –
>>Those of us with fear will find ourselves on a planet pretty similar to this one. Those of us who have transmuted most or all of it will end up on a level much higher. This is what daoism is about.<<
I disagree with this SO completely!
I would like to ask, where is it, this higher-vibrational earth?
I speak as someone who has visited some of the higher spheres.
Where is it located?
If it is not physical (and it can't be) it is an astral realm.
The only way all of you could enter it is if you could transmute your entire physical body.
There is indeed no need for me to disappear into an astral realm right now.
I like it here and I'm needed here!
When I've lived out my life here, then I'll exit and go – not to some preordained heaven, prepared for me by a bunch of spirits – but where I choose to go.
What you are clearly talking about is that these 'higher' and 'lower' earths are heavenly and hell-like respectively.
That is a judgement my friend, and it's not one I'm willing to make.
Only if you pre-judge this earth as miserable and horrible do you wish to escape to somewhere else.
I think I can work very well from here, thankyou!
Or do you say that those who are left on your 'lower' earth should just be abandoned?
NN
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