Astral Projection

Heya Michael –

>>It shouldn’t be such rocket science to authenticate. Not much more then go to bed and how many fingers am I holding behind my back.<< Oh man! I see what you mean. I can answer you pretty well. I had involuntary OBEs for a while, and now I can get out deliberately, but it's not nearly as simple as you'd think and I'm still a bit shaky - however I have learned alot about it. IT IS DEFINITELY POSSIBLE. But more about this below. Firstly, it takes alot of practice to do *well*. That's why it's not immediately possible to authenticate like you say. In the words of Draja Mickaharic - "The projecting people must also be able to use their sensory organs at the astral level. Just as children do not automatically understand how to use their sensory organs at birth, students must learn to operate in this new non-physical environment." ['Practice of Magic']. It may seem like a lame excuse, but I can totally vouch for the truth of this. At first it's very weird and you can't trust your... ?eyes? And not only that, moving around is just as difficult as it would be for a tiny kid also. You have to master your mind in all sorts of new ways. Ever see a kid learning to walk? It takes that long to learn! (at least for me). The first time I did it, it was the shortest OBE of all time - I found myself on the ceiling and thought "My body is back down there somewhere" - and WHUMP! I was back in it. It takes time to get used to the fact that you go where your thoughts go. I believe that some studies have been done to try to authenticate such things, by means of the blind tests you're talking about - I'll try and find out who did them for you if you want - but the projectors were not necessarily that experienced. No more than a person who had just "opened their orbit" for the 1st time would *suddenly* be far healthier and more grounded, does a novice projector *suddenly* know how many fingers you're holding up! Different projectors will say they saw different things and it takes alot of practice to use your senses to see what is there rather than an interpretation of it. However it CAN be done - I have that from people I trust. Secondly, as you say, it is easy to be deluded *even when* you really are projecting. This is hard to explain... when you get out you know you're out and you know you're awake and not dreaming. Fine, well and good. But you aren't necessarily *quite* in the "real world"! The place you go when you project is like the "astral root substance" of reality - it shows all sorts of subtle differences - doors in wrong places, different furniture etc. To actually interact with the real world from the astral takes time. But it's fun to learn... only slow. I could say alot more about this if you like. I HEARTILY recommend a read of the books I mentioned before. You will certainly be convinced it is possible after you read them - perhaps especially the one by Peterson, because he spends alot of time on all the idiotic things he got wrong! Trying to re-enter his body and finding himself back-to-front for example. And his exercises really work, especially if you have alot of chi available from doing other stuff. I would love to answer any more questions you have if the above's not clear. But I will just repeat: IT IS POSSIBLE! It's very different from lucid dreaming, impossible to mistake for any kind of dream. However, like so much of this spirity stuff, it isn't as cut-and-dried and easy to prove as I'd like it to be. One day maybe I'll be good enough to prove it to the world! But that's a way off. Oh yeah, one more thing: many people have already done it but buried the memory because it can be traumatic or can be triggered by trauma, to exit your body. That was the case with me, now my memories are coming back. To do it consciously is more difficult than involuntarily and at the beginning not necessarily easy because, fundamentally, you are mimicking the death process. It is not uncommon to think you are dying and suddenly change your mind about doing it halfway through! Also not uncommon to hear voices commanding you to stop, see threatening monsters, etc. But it's all illusory. best, NN

Bloody hell, .freeform, those are insanely good questions! Why couldn’t you ask something I had a hope of answering??? They all interest me but to be quite honest I have no idea what the answers are really…

>>what is the impact on your energy level after doing this?<< Well I think it depends what you get up to whilst you're out there. I know some people who feel tired after but I haven't found that.... I do think though that separating and re-integrating the bodies can be good for their connections and so on. Like a distillation, I think. I don't lose any energy doing it. >>Is there anyway to ‘cultivate’ in asteral form?<< The reason I can't really answer that is that I don't know much about Taoist cultivation (which will change after I order some of Michael's goodies!), and I really come from a magical perspective. Many magicians, of whom I am one, regard the process as a cultivation in itself. The 1st level is learning to be very solid in the physical world, in your energy body, and go any distance from your physical body. This strengthens you in many ways - I'm sure you can see that, since strengthening the energy body is something Taoists often talk about. The next is that you go higher after that, to the astral worlds and higher still, and what you meet there, provided you can reintegrate the experience when you come back, is in itself a means of spiritual growth. Conversation with a high entity is like swapping chi with it. I must add that you can also have "bad trips". I'm taking a break from projection now and planning to work purely on prayer, qigong (if I like it) and my character/personality, because paradoxically I feel the need to be much more grounded before I can safely take off. I haven't had any bad experiences - it's just that I realise if one is well-balanced and the mind is under perfect control one will accomplish alot more. I've had alot of such experiences, where I went too fast at the beginning and then realised I had to backtrack a little before proceeding. >>Can you go (in this astral form) to specific ‘power-points’ around the world to charge your energy body?<< You probably could, as well as many places NOT around the world too of course. I've never tried it yet. best NN

Heya Michael –

>>I’ll check out those books.<< I know you'll get a kick out of them. >>I do think dream/night practice is ultimately one of the major studies for energy work.<< Funny thing is, I don't consider OBEs dreamwork at all and always do it in the day really - when I deliberately do it. The state of OBE is not like dreaming at all. You are just the same self as you are when awake. best NN

Heya Farooq,

>>just before going out, i heard ‘voices’ like on a badly tuned radio, and then i was on a different plane…..<< Hearing those voices is very common I'm told. >>Michael Winn’s comments on astral travel is hilarious: “…its like bad late night tv”<< Only kind worth watching! best NN

Hey .f –

>>I appreciate the way you answered from your own personal experience, many times ppl get into theories and ideas that they, themselves, havent tried before<< That has its place too, but I think the problem is they start to think that by hearing of and studying about this technique they've *sort of* already *kind of* mastered it... then you find out if you probe they haven't got around to actually learning it yet. >>since I find that balance and groundedness is so implicit in its teaching<< Yeah that's why I'm here too. >>I also really like Pill Farber<< Remind me, I'm drawing a blank on that name. I also love Jan Fries very much, and Draja Mickaharic. best NN