contractile orgasm control??

Thanks

Being a relativistic thinker I cannot claim to be 100% correct ever.
Tongue firmly planted in cheek.

I do not believe that M.Winn or M.Chia actually have made any statement that one could ejaculate without loss of energy.

As a matter of fact I do recall M.Chia (in 1993 at Summer retreat) making what seemed like a clarification of position on this subject. Details aside, the basic point was that one could extract “sufficient” enough chi before ejaculation in order to make what energy loss there was to be minimal.
I think he said something like 80% could be saved this way.

It is somewhat my interpretation that the remaining energy loss was more physical substance loss than it was energy/essence loss.

At the time I had the sense that Chia consciously made this clarification in order to give instructors the idea that to be too rigid about retention (pun not intended…but good anyway) could bring unneeded problems, and that the goal of 100% retention had in the past already created some problems of various kinds to other HT practitioners and even teachers.

In my mind it’s kind of like my approach to nutrition. I eat meat. More fish and poultry by far, but occassional high quality red meats in small portions. I think it is useful and natural (I am not seeking to open up this subject for discussion…way too big a subject!) I also think that the typical western meat and potatoes meal is unbalanced and features WAY too much meat in one serving. So my idea of balance is more fish and poultry and less meat of any kind in a serving. In the same way I think that sex done regularly and repeatedly in an unconscious way as pure outward release is inevitably harmful. If had more consciously it can be more nourishing and the outward movement of energy can be turned in ward to move the water wheel of the energy body. I also believe that it is a rare practitioner who can do 100% retention in the course of steady sexual relationship without running into issues of stuck energy, or any number of other problems it is possible to encounter. so with that said I think you and I both agree that occassional ejaculation is helpful to find balance.

This is the concept that is “new” in that it seems to be a compromise which modern taoist practitioners have applied to their practice.

Of all M.Winn’s accomplishments I think his claim of 100% non ejaculation is perhaps the most remarkable. If true I think it says more about the effects of having the energy system more wide open and able to recycle energy and come to a different equilibrium.

Why do we always end up writing so much about SEX?

Anybody want to talk about Fusion? 🙂

Craig

I think Craig especially and Trunk have summarized well the basic issue here, and the reasonfor my comment.

ESPECIALLY for beginning cultivators, obsession about sperm is not healthy.
Focus on what you want to achieve, not what you are afraid of losing.
Focus on recirculation, not stopping loss.
Chi flows where the mind goes.

Focus on sharing the recirculated chi, even if you don’t have a partner.
If you masturbate and injaculate, send the chi to your heart, and radiate it to others/all your vital organ spirits with the inner smile. Make sex (jing chi) part of your shen cultivationi practice. You won’t lose a thing, you will gain relation to everything.

This is the biggest mistake in male cultivators – the sexual energy gets divorced from emotional and soul content, thus even if they become proficient it is mechanical and ultimately dry. And it is the most common complaint by women in relationship with Taoist sexual cultivators – that the male is more obsessed with not losing sperm than with connecting with their lover.

Many Taoist commentaries on sex were written during confucian and patriarchal periods of chinese history.

Empowering the woman, and trusting her to refine and circulate whatever sperm you release to her, i.e. that you don’t recirculate internally from your sperm, is consistent with Taoist principles of yin-yang balance. And much healthier than feeling guilty about losing a speck of sperm.

Chi is infinite. Sperm (jing chi) is powerful stuff, but where does it come from? From your jing, so your jing is more powerful than your jing chi. Just less accessible. That is purpose of lesser kan and li methods – to move beyond sperm (external control/relation to jing chi) to internal relation with your jing.

And Craig is right, standing practice is important part of this, why I put it in Qigong fundamentals 3&4. But once your dantian is open, sexual energy control is about 1000 percent easier…..

A lot of words, generated by a small speck of sperm.
michael
from your jing.

Interesting – sounds like you are condensing your jing and shrinking your body in the process. This is what happens at death at an accelerated speed with high level adepts. There is a body about 18 inches high of a taoist adept in Shaanxi province who began shrinking but couldn’t complete the process before he died…..

I am guessing you are losing yourself in the dantian, or rather the ming men (same space, but pre-natal dimension of it, door way into pre-natal sea of jing in my view), because you lack a way to stabilize the space of that cauldron. So you’ve switched to the bones as a natural cauldron, one that gives you better boundary/earth. There is no reason why you should not make that your center, and it would keep you focused on the underlying jing there.

The fusion and especially kan and li process is designed to stabilize the jing-chi-shen interaction in the dantian. But its also true that the dantian is not physical space, it is inner space everywhere inside the body, all three dantian are one and should be cultivated simultlaneously.

I cultivate all three simultaneously, but the frequency of what is cultivated shifts in each formula.

you are right to not limit yourself to physical manifestation of jing/sperm; however, consider whether you are using bone marrow as a substitute for sperm. Jing itself is finer and deeper dimensionally than bone marrow which is also just another expression of jing. Jing is difficult to grasp directly, hence the necessity of methods like kan and li.

hope this stimulates some interesting meditation for you.
m

>Finally, i find it puzzling that greater sense of space in the body lessens the sensation of chi movement.

This happens because of a shift from post-natal chi circulation to pre-natal, formless inner space.

The jing is everywhere inside you, as the matrix of your space. It manifests first through the kidneys, bones, blood, sperm, but those are not the jing itself.

The five body spirits are known in Chinese as the wu jingshen, the five spirits that have essence. So all the inner spirits have substance, but the kidney is the first amongst the five. We live in a water dominated body/planet.
m