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Hey all,
I’ve been away for awhile, but have checked out the recent postings. I wanted to start a small thread to check out your experiences and insights on arranging a ‘universal energy body.’ For a number of years a struggled a bit working between Western Magickal, Hindu, Tibetan, and Taoist practices that I felt all had worth, and probably had some common roots. For me they offered a complementary set of practices that balanced me and helped me full both destinies. Still, the Taoist seemed to approach things from a bottom up perspective (earth-centered) and the Western lineages worked more from a top down approach (space-centered) This relates to the water vs fire paths that you often hear Michael speak or post about. The given approach (from the top or from the bottom) influences the language used in the path, the likely pitfalls, the likely biases, and the preliminary arrangement of the energy body before stabilizing into what each tradition refers to as the ‘immortal body, light body, diamond body, etc.’
So, I’ve been sitting with a cauldron full of seemingly contradictory practices and faithfully stirring the brew while looking for a middle way that fit my needs. In the past couple of years something has begun to precipitate that seems fundamental, and surprisingly it is quite harmonic. I’ve been seeing a lot of posts recently on different email lists about the ‘diamond body.’ For awhile I have known that to truly accomplish this great work one would need to go ‘As deep as you go high, and as inward as you go outward’ to eventually find the same ‘essence’ in both locals. The question of what happens in between, becomes a matter of how do you arrange yourself to be in harmony or resonance with the whole all the way through your being down to the light that pulses out from the two strands of your DNA. It seems that there harmonic relationships based on the Fibonacci series, Phi which serve as the blueprint of the energy body that can then mirror the structure of the inner and outer universe. It stand in the middle resonating in both directions until there is a continuum between ‘heaven and earth.’ This is speaking in a linear metaphor, when in actuality it is likely more holographic.
So with that verbose prelude, I ask, ‘Has anyone noticed how the basic energy body of the Taoist system mirrors a harmonic musical system based on the Fibonacci series and Phi?’
1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34, etc
It started to click for me once I got the eight vessels going in conjunction with the Kan and Li practice. I found the hidden 9th, then I noticed the 12 meridians with the hidden 13th. The vesica pisces as taught by Michael for helping the Kan and Li began to connect as the 3 expanding out to the five elements and then on to the 8 (with hidden 9th).
For those that dont have much experience with the Western alchemical tradition, they often use geometric forms or sacred platonic solids as harmonic resonators with elemental forces or as containers for such energies. In their tradition the dodecahedron is related to spirit and the icosa-dodecahedron is a nested form that is the form of the earth grid, or the energy body of the earth.
Perhaps due to what I have practiced before, the Taoist energy body with its stable gyroscope of the microcosmic orbit, belt channel, central channel, and out ward expression of the two inner side channels to create a L/R loop, and its ability to embody the ratios of 3, 5, 8 (9), 13 (12 +1) has started resonating with the platonic solids within and around me as a container- it is somewhat fractal, holographic, and recursive.
I am sitting with it and watching it link up as I do more practice, but it has the sensation of connecting level of my being and tuning my little hologram of reality to the larger or deeper picture.
One of the important things that I have noticed in cultivation is the downfalls that occur when one has gaps in the system. When I speak of gaps I mean levels that arent integrated in the continuity of the system. This usually leads to strange compensations, seeking the energy of the missing level outside of oneself, demonizing that level, control trips of trying to banish or dominate that energy outside of oneself, etc. That being said, I have noticed a gap in this process in myself, and was offering this out to see what you all might have to say. It will likely resolve itself with continued practice and patience, but I thought this would spark some interesting discussion.
The gap: the number ten is often attributed to the ten heavenly stems and is seen as the yin/yang aspect of the five phases. There is an energy building that appears to be trying to resonate with the icosa-dodecahedron of the earth grid. This shape is the union of an icosahedron (platonic solid for the element of water) and the dodecahedron (platonic solid for ether). It has 30 vertices, 32 faces, and 60 edges. Twelve of the faces are pentagons, 20 are triangles, six decagons create the structure through interlocking rings. Does anyone know how this structure (which is the supposed structure of the earth grid) resonates with the energy body of the Taoist system? I would guess that it would, given that the Taoist system is so earth-centered. I can feel 12 pentagrams with the hidden 13th (man) as center. The rest hasnt connected yet. I am not sure how the heavenly energies are incorporated (ie. is it a double of the ten heavenly stems as triangles or of the six decagons that create the structure?)
Possibly this is simply mental masturbation, but it does feel like a fundamental resonance is establishing itself. I am interested to see what you all have to say.
Sincerely tuning the radio to broadband,
Pema
Hey all,
I’ve been away for awhile, but have checked out the recent postings. I wanted to start a small thread to check out your experiences and insights on arranging a ‘universal energy body.’ For a number of years I struggled a bit working between Western Magickal, Hindu, Tibetan, and Taoist practices that I felt all had worth, and probably had some common roots. For me they offered a complementary set of practices that balanced me and helped me full both destinies. Still, the Taoist seemed to approach things from a bottom up perspective (earth-centered) and the Western lineages worked more from a top down approach (space-centered) This relates to the water vs fire paths that you often hear Michael speak or post about. The given approach (from the top or from the bottom) influences the language used in the path, the likely pitfalls, the likely biases, and the preliminary arrangement of the energy body before stabilizing into what each tradition refers to as the ‘immortal body, light body, diamond body, etc.’
So, I’ve been sitting with a cauldron full of seemingly contradictory practices and faithfully stirring the brew while looking for a middle way that fits my needs. In the past couple of years something has begun to precipitate that seems fundamental, and surprisingly it is quite harmonic.
I’ve been seeing a lot of posts recently on different email lists about the ‘diamond body.’ For awhile I have known that to truly accomplish this great work one would need to go ‘As deep as you go high, and as inward as you go outward’ to eventually find the same ‘essence’ in both locales. The question of what happens in between, becomes a matter of how you arrange yourself to be in harmony or resonance with the whole all the way through your being down to the light that pulses out from the two strands of your DNA. It seems that there are harmonic relationships based on the Fibonacci series, Phi, and Pi which serve as the blueprint of the energy body, and that can then mirror or resonate with the structure of the inner and outer universe. Such an energetic structure stands in the middle resonating in both directions until there is a continuum between ‘heaven and earth.’ This is speaking in a linear metaphor, when in actuality it is likely more holographic.
So with that verbose prelude, I ask, ‘Has anyone noticed how the basic energy body of the Taoist system mirrors a harmonic musical system based on the Fibonacci series and Phi?’
1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34, etc
It started to click for me once I got the eight vessels going in conjunction with the Kan and Li practice. I found the hidden 9th, then I noticed the 12 meridians with the hidden 13th. The vesica pisces as taught by Michael for helping the Kan and Li began to connect as the 3 expanding out to the five elements and then on to the 8 (with hidden 9th).
For those that dont have much experience with the Western alchemical tradition, they often use geometric forms or sacred platonic solids as harmonic resonators with elemental forces or as containers for such energies. In their tradition the dodecahedron is related to spirit or ether, the icosahedron is related to water, and the icosa-dodecahedron is a nested form that is the shape of the earth grid, or the energy body of the earth.
Perhaps due to what I have practiced before, the Taoist energy body with its stable gyroscope of the microcosmic orbit, belt channel, central channel, and out ward expression of the two inner side channels to create a L/R loop, and its ability to embody the ratios of 3, 5, 8 (9), 13 (12 +1) has started resonating with the platonic solids within and around me as a container- it is somewhat fractal, holographic, and recursive.
I am sitting with it and watching it link up as I do more practice, but it has the sensation of connecting levels of my being and tuning my little hologram of reality to the larger or deeper picture.
One of the important things that I have noticed in cultivation is the downfalls that occur when one has gaps in the system. When I speak of gaps I mean levels that arent integrated in the continuity of the system. This usually leads to strange compensations, seeking the energy of the missing level outside of oneself, demonizing that level, control trips of trying to banish or dominate that energy outside of oneself, etc. That being said, I have noticed a gap in this process in myself, and was offering this out to see what you all might have to say. It will likely resolve itself with continued practice and patience, but I thought this would spark some interesting discussion.
The gap: the number ten is often attributed to the ten heavenly stems and is seen as the yin/yang aspect of the five phases. There is an energy building in me that appears to be trying to resonate with the icosa-dodecahedron of the earth grid. This shape is the union of an icosahedron (platonic solid for the element of water) and the dodecahedron (platonic solid for ether). It has 30 vertices, 32 faces, and 60 edges. Twelve of the faces are pentagons, 20 are triangles, six decagons create the structure through interlocking rings. Does anyone know how this structure (which is the supposed structure of the earth grid) resonates with the energy body of the Taoist system? I would guess that it would, given that the Taoist system is so earth-centered. I can feel 12 pentagrams with the hidden 13th (man) as center. The rest hasnt connected yet. I am not sure how the heavenly energies are incorporated (ie. is it a double of the ten heavenly stems as triangles ( 20 + center for 21)or of the six decagons that create the structure?)
Possibly this is simply mental masturbation, but it does feel like a fundamental resonance is establishing itself. I am interested to see what you all have to say.
Sincerely tuning the radio to broadband,
Pema
“Possibly this is simply mental masturbation, but it does feel like a fundamental resonance is establishing itself.”
Hi Pema,
I think you got the whole thing in that one sentence.
It sounds to me that you are being too mental about this. The mind likes the distraction of thinking and “understanding,” (a most misused word) and keeps our attention busy on things while the deeeper levels of experience go by us.
While I’m not doubting that a lot of this scientific sounding stuff about forms and numbers actually exists in our inner experience, I believe that what we are after is what is inside them, or below them, and that we are best served by asking to be brought deeper than the level of awareness at which we can watch them exist.
A “fundamental resonance is establishing itself,” for sure. But we lose it when we get enamored by the finger that is pointing to the moon.
Blessings, Alexander
“There is an energy building in me that appears to be trying to resonate with the icosa-dodecahedron of the earth grid”
This sentence stood out for me and the way you present the inner experiences did not sound like mental masturbation. That is your call.
I hear a pure intention for completion first and understanding as an ally but not as a leader.
There are so many very personal energetic koans that arouse curiosity of no interest or value for others. Curiosity leads to questioning and this opens up the field of personal transformation as energies follow thought. Customized answers arise for the moment at hand.
I like A’s refrain to get underneath and inside. If the geometries call draw them inside, actualize them with intent and see if it heightens the attraction or causes more mental worry or strain. Go where you are led with inner discernment for what is needed by you now. Become even more curious about the ‘gap’ is what comes to me.
I am touched by your curiosity and process more than any right answer that aligns with tradition. It is no wonder you have gone through all these varying trainings. Perhaps you are onto a synthesis in your own lab that will prove uselful to others who enter similar doorways? Barry
Pema,
What Barry says about synthesis is in my experience quite the point. We all are our own little planets or universes within the bigger One. Achieving that completeness is the point, however you get there. It is my tendency to want to reduce mentalness in favor of the more substantial inner reality -very much in keeping with some of the commentary on Ken Wilber’s stuff, which I also find excessively mental and thus misses the point of spiritual practice.
There is that something deeper in us that prompted Laotzi to make the famous statement that the Dao you can talk about is not actually the Dao that IS. So when I write or read stuff I test it against my inner barometer which lets me know whether or not what I am writing or reading is bringing me toward the deeper thing or away from it. Inevitably, there is a point at which the explaining of things becomes too mental and thus distracts me from my beingness.
So when I personally get images etc like what you were describing originally I relax as deeply as possible so I can actually take their substance into my body as a real thing and unite them. If I can’t do that I know I have reached my present limit of integration and go no further. This way I don’t get caught in fantasys or illusions stemming from my imagination/mental activity, and everything gets properly grounded.
The reason I am coming back with this and going into more detail is because when I originally read your post it sounded as if you were talking as a scientist and they so easily get lost in their heads, reducing the bulk of the “iceberg” to only the “tip” they can see. I was hoping to help create a more complete thus useful view. This work has to be really sober or it wanders into escapism – and that’s bad.
Blessings, Alexander
I think the strength of daoist alchemy lies in its simplicity, with the most fundamental resonance forming in the union of yin and yang to create yuan qi, stabilized by the five elements. Harmonic shapes are an option to be used in higher level kan and li, but their usefulness lies in the joining of their opposite polarities. The resonant levels (“octaves”) occur in the connection with different levels of nature: personal, earth, planets etc.
I agree with you both that integration is the essential point. The most useful part of my post is probably the segment about having ‘gaps’ in the system. I have seen in myself and others unfortunate results of such ‘dead zones of awareness and resonance’ manifesting in behavior and health. Listening to the nature of my blind spots (at the least the blind spots that I have awareness of!), it has a lot to do with resolving the fundamental polarity on a personal and lineage level. The tension I feel currently may be related to the Kan and Li process trying to move to the next level which works well on lineage issues. I currently have only studied to the level of lesser Kan and Li, and from what I have been told, the next two formulas target my issues more precisely. Fortunately, it is an organic process that unfolds on its own with persistent, sincere effor unique process. Whatever I learn from this, I upload to the collective as we all develop together interdependently.
Alexander, I have appreciated your input to prior posts and I feel that your comment has insight. One of the problems of the Western schools is approaching from the top-down (I hope that you all know what I mean by this) and being mostly a fire primary path, it can get caught in the mental or in an obsession with ‘will.’ It can have problems engaging and harmonizing the emotions which can lead to a ‘gap’ as mentioned above which leads to power plays on the physical and emotional levels. Unfortunately, we see this in our current world situation. The Western paths that are able to bridge this gap into the feeling realms through sincere compassion and an understanding of the great interdependent process can be successful. Each path has its merits, and it’s useful to know the strengths and weaknesses of whichever path or skillful means one chooses to employ. The water primary paths have their strengths and weaknesses as well.
I feel that just as we are moving from a patriarchal period with the resurgence of the feminine, we will hopefully find a balance of the polarity rather than seeking a return of the matriarchy (seen a lot of interesting posts about Hilary lately.) Is this Kan and Li on the global level…
Thanks,
Pema
I agree with you both that integration is the essential point. The most useful part of my post is probably the segment about having ‘gaps’ in the system. I have seen in myself and others unfortunate results of such ‘dead zones of awareness and resonance’ manifesting in behavior and health. Listening to the nature of my blind spots (at the least the blind spots that I have awareness of!), it has a lot to do with resolving the fundamental polarity on a personal and lineage level. The tension I feel currently may be related to the Kan and Li process trying to move to the next level which works well on lineage issues. I currently have only studied to the level of lesser Kan and Li, and from what I have been told, the next two formulas target my issues more precisely. Fortunately, it is an organic process that unfolds on its own with persistent, sincere effort and patience.
The Western approach, instead of growing it from the bottom up (earth-centered), tends to bring it down to earth from the top down (space-centered). So being, it feels like there is transformative process resonating its way to center from above and below. This is my personal ride, and like you said, we will all unfold our unique process. Whatever I learn from this, I upload to the collective as we all develop together interdependently.
Alexander, I have appreciated your input to prior posts and I feel that your comment has insight. One of the problems of the Western schools is approaching from the top-down (I hope that you all know what I mean by this) and being mostly a fire primary path, it can get caught in the mental or in an obsession with ‘will.’ It can have problems engaging and harmonizing the emotions which can lead to a ‘gap’ as mentioned above which leads to power plays on the physical and emotional levels. Unfortunately, we see this in our current world situation. The Western paths that are able to bridge this gap into the feeling realms through sincere compassion and an understanding of the great interdependent process can be successful. Each path has its merits, and it’s useful to know the strengths and weaknesses of whichever path or skillful means one chooses to employ. The water primary paths have their strengths and weaknesses as well.
I feel that just as we are moving from a patriarchal period with the resurgence of the feminine, we will hopefully find a balance of the polarity rather than seeking a return of the matriarchy (seen a lot of interesting posts about Hilary lately.) Is this Kan and Li on the global level…
Thanks,
Pema
Hi Pema,
Many good points in your last message. And I think I understand what you mean by those gaps and my take on this is that as you practice the formulas at whatevver level you are on it is the inner space and the inner smile that does the cooking for you of whatever is up at the time so don’t sweat it.
Like you say about the western stuff, there is much controlling taking place and that is because of the dominant condition that the human ego is in – the unresolved issues which keep it wanting to have power, even power to do good and change things. Consciousness at this level does not yet understand that it is in the surrender to the process that the transmuting happens, so ego gets in its own way a lot here. Underneath it all there is the fear of being down here. That’s why so much modern, western stuff starts “at the top” and tends to want to stay there.
When you’re really cooking there is a sense of allowing the space of the smile and the yuan chi doing the work for you. You don’t have to go after stuff to transmute it. You have to apply your focussed attention in the most relaxed way possible and then there’s a great concentration of energy that develops and brings things to resolution. You are a participant but not a doer. This is how I have experienced it working best in my own life.
And what you say here is the most important thing: “Fortunately, it is an organic process that unfolds on its own…” You can trust it.
As far as the outer world goes, it has to be a reflection of what is going on in our consciousness as the new energies come in. I think we are assured of greater harmony but how that looks remains to be seen. I have come to the understanding that either worrying about the world or trying to change it is a dysfunctional task, and that my work is about me. By doing that I am making a change in the field that will have a lasting effect.
Peacefully, Alexander
Pema,
I think you already have a lot of valuable feedback about process and feeling and the Tao path of Water AND Fire holding a harmony.But to get to your question on geometry . I think you are picking up on the fact that the earth’s grid is transforming and is finally coming into the collective human awareness. But your question lacks fundamental awareness of the simpler polarity underlying the icosa and dodecahedronal shapes., i.e. what do they unfold from?
It is well accepted in sacred geometry circles that the Vesica Piscis is the fundamental shape that “births” all other geometries. if you hold this at the center of all your synthesizing practices, everything will integrate naturally. Similarly, in Tao cosmology the original trinity of the life force, of jing-chi-shen, of Heaven-Earth-Man (in later stage of unfolding) all birth the complex forms of the 10,000 Things.
Notably, the golden spiral of Phi (embodiment of the fibonacci series) can be constructed from the vesica. I am well aware of the Taoist cosmology mirroring the fibonacci; in simpler terms, the chi loves to move in spirals, that is how it unfolds itself while still adhering to the center, like the helix of DNA. From there it constructs larger geometries that are all fundamentally three or five sided or multiples thereof in order to hold the complex vessel of creation/later heaven.
The deep earth geometries are reflected in the chinese calendar cycles. The geometrics are the mental body, the harmonics are the spiritual body, the physical experience/water of the unfolding polarities are felt in the sexual energy polarities and in the blood/yin.
As I have told you privately, you ultimately have to choose a structure into which you will synthesize other info/experiences gathered/felt. I looked at all the esoteric structures and chose Tao as most grounded and in tune with the arising inner yang fire of the Great Mother. Atlantis replays our techno and excess will weaknesses. Lemuria was uncorrupted and held Eath in respect. It is the safest and ultimately fastest horse to ride at this moment in my bookie’s calculated spiritual gamble….
Smiling to the brilliant facets of our damond Mind,
MichaelPema,
I think you already have a lot of valuable feedback about process and feeling and the Tao path of Water AND Fire holding a harmony.But to get to your question on geometry . I think you are picking up on the fact that the earth’s grid is transforming and is finally coming into the collective human awareness. But your question lacks fundamental awareness of the simpler polarity underlying the icosa and dodecahedronal shapes., i.e. what do they unfold from?
It is well accepted in sacred geometry circles that the Vesica Piscis is the fundamental shape that “births” all other geometries. if you hold this at the center of all your synthesizing practices, everything will integrate naturally. Similarly, in Tao cosmology the original trinity of the life force, of jing-chi-shen, of Heaven-Earth-Man (in later stage of unfolding) all birth the complex forms of the 10,000 Things.
Notably, the golden spiral of Phi (embodiment of the fibonacci series) can be constructed from the vesica. I am well aware of the Taoist cosmology mirroring the fibonacci; in simpler terms, the chi loves to move in spirals, that is how it unfolds itself while still adhering to the center, like the helix of DNA. From there it constructs larger geometries that are all fundamentally three or five sided or multiples thereof in order to hold the complex vessel of creation/later heaven.
The deep earth geometries are reflected in the chinese calendar cycles. The geometrics are the mental body, the harmonics are the spiritual body, the physical experience/water of the unfolding polarities are felt in the sexual energy polarities and in the blood/yin.
As I have told you privately, you ultimately have to choose a structure into which you will synthesize other info/experiences gathered/felt. I looked at all the esoteric structures and chose Tao as most grounded and in tune with the arising inner yang fire of the Great Mother. Atlantis replays our techno and excess will weaknesses. Lemuria was uncorrupted and held Eath in respect. It is the safest and ultimately fastest horse to ride at this moment in my bookie’s calculated spiritual gamble….
Smiling to the brilliant facets of our damond Mind,
MichaelRob Moses has been Riding Phi for a number of years, his reflections of movement in harmony with the Golden Proportion has produces a number of creative tagents, many of which he will send to you if you email him. Examples of his movement using the Golden Proportion as humurous and intelligent guide are here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/kungfumoses
Sacred Geometry for the kid at heart. Enjoy!
Sacred Geometry for the Kid at Heart
Rob Moses has been Riding Phi for a number of years, his reflections of movement in harmony with the Golden Proportion has produces a number of creative tagents, many of which he will send to you if you email him. Examples of his movement using the Golden Proportion as humurous and intelligent guide are here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/kungfumoses
Sacred Geometry for the kid at heart. Enjoy!
Sacred Geometry for the Kid at Heart
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