It is like walking into a church…

Give not expecting in return. Give because you have so much, you have found unlimmited treasure. You give becuase it is what you do. But of course there is always a return. Becuase when you accept you feel it. The life force lets them be as they choose. This does not mean you do not let them know where you stand, or you do not have standards for this forum. In short try not to take it so personaly. Fear not they can not harm you over the forum unless you let them. If a smelly bum walking on the street comes up to you and your friends and says “you guys are smelly evil elfs” I assume you would have a laugh and move on. But lets say its your prom you come down stairs and your dad says “you look like a slut”. I would assume this would not make you feel all that great. Both are just opinions one no more valid then the other. The power lies with you. Those who control the symbols control the people, because poeple put power in symbols.

If you read there stuff and feel resistance, great you have an opportunity for acceptance.

Peace be with you.

Hey Emelgee, my answer to this is on the philosophy thread – see post traumatic shock syndrome…

Hi Folks,

This issue has come up enough times for me lately to have recognized it as a major personal learning lesson. For me, Emelgee, I do not want to have to demand other people’s respect in order to feel OK. I am learning that when people act jerky and I have a poor reaction to them then I am somehow choosing to be moved off center by them. I maybe doing this unconsciously or partly consciously but it is still me doing it to me. The anger I feel may have a lot to do with the feeling of grief from being rejected, the loss of the potential comradery that could have been. But as long as I have any little tendency to get swayed from being alright with who I am inside of me the Universe is going to get others to sock it to me until I see through my dilemma. The greater my commitment to my own freedom, the harder and faster these things pelt me until I let go of my defensiveness.

The ideal response in these situations, once the issue is steamed out of you, is to go into immediate forgiveness and acceptance without having a personal reaction. I posted a huna technique awhile ago that describes it. It is based on the idea that absolutely everything “out there” is part of us and that we are ultimately responsible for it and can effectively work with the negative reflection if we can own it and forgive it. This is a tall order, but I know it is doable.

Next in line after the ultimate is to have my feelings and create as much space as I can between me and my normal reaction without trying to stop the feelings, but going into and under them so I can be with what is underneath.

In the case here that started this healthy dialogue between us, the two jerks in question ridiculed me and I felt bad. This gives me the opportunity to descend into myself at the level of that old pain and do something about it as it lives in my subconscious. Sometimes this kind of action actually changes things that are happening in the outer world and sometimes it just frees you from the normal reaction when and if it comes to you again.

So in a sense I an grateful for their behavior cause I can free myself further through it, while still feeling appreciation for your words of reprimand to them. I think it is important to come forward with what one feels is appropriate to establish balance in any given situation. Here, Wendy wants to nurture them to help them grow and you want to discipline them. It’s all part of the dynamic.

Ultimately, I believe that balance is best created when nothing is done about a situation at all and all our attention is focused on the state we want to experience instead. (In fact, when we are really above it all and have no connection to a “problem” we do not even see one there.) Between that and where we are at the moment lies any transmutation we have to do.

And I feel that’s necessary because what energy do we want to create? Do we want to close down against them because they piss us off, or do we want to stay intact and hold our smile in the face of their ignorance and immaturity?

Love to All, Alexander

“The thing is – by acknowledging that their immaturity annoys me – it doesn’t mean I am off centre. It means I recognise the annoyance and acknowledge it and I can do both of these things without losing my smile!”

I believe that when we are centered we cannot be annoyed. I think you felt annoyed and were aware of it and call that being centered.

-A

🙂 This kind of communication from one microcosm to the other is a little tricky. I am pretty shure you missed alot of my points but thats ok. I assume you practice healing tao methods, if you take those principals of relationship and apply them to the outside world they work there to. As above so below. It is just harder on the outside world because of all the fear. Hopefully though imortals will not worry so much about death.

peace be with you

Hi Chris,

My comment comes from an ideal viewpoint of what “centered” means. In my experience to be truly centered means that we can see what is going on around us but there is no “hook,” nothing for the ego to catch on, no issue to react to. The feelings within centeredness are basically neutrality and peace. One is unmoved, meaning not moved from the center. “Centered” in daoism implies coming from the central/core channel – being one with yuan/source chi which is neutral and unconditional.

V-“I believe that we often hide in some sense of being centered, and miss out on the ups and downs of later heaven.”

I do not believe there is such a thing as “sense of being centered.” You either are or you’re not. To encounter a situation in which you are in any way affected by what is going on is not pure centeredness and involves a kind of balancing act between getting pulled off center by the issue/circumstances and pulled on center by your natural/developed balance. To be truly centered does not mean you are not aware of things in later heaven. You are just not affected by them.

This is actually part of the definition of immortality. An immortal is not affecetd by heat or cold or the emotions. This is part of what total freedom means. You direct the course of your life. The circumstances do not.

V-“I believe that our big job is to open the communication between later heaven and the primordial.”

I agree. To develop this relationship with lifeforce and dao and to let go of all within us that is not love and therefore cannot become immortal.

Blessings, Alexander

Hi Alex,

Thanks for elaborating on your thoughts. I still disagree, based on where I am with my experience. I’ll elaborate a bit on my perspective.

Alex: “”Centered” in daoism implies coming from the central/core channel – being one with yuan/source chi which is neutral and unconditional.”

This statement of yours gets to the core of what I disagree with. You here present
“being” in a self-centered way, as a flow from center out, from primordial to later heaven.

I think there is a return flow that always fucks with you, which is the communication from later heaven to primordial. This is us in our role of conduit. There is always something new to experience, some new twist on things, that catches us.

If we stay in our center, we never fully open to the mess of later heaven. For me, the position is not to stay in a “neutral” center, but to embody the whole range, from high to low, from rage to love, from revulsion to desire…and deep centeredness.

Anyways, that is just how it is for me now. In sometime it will change.

thanks,
Chris