- This topic has 13 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 5 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
since so many Christians are SO uptight about their english translations of old Greek/Jewish writings..
has anyone encountered the “Ye are Gods” issue..
or the “Melchisedek Eternal Priest” issue?
the “Ye Are Gods” issue is from the New Testament where Jesus is accused of blasphemy for proclaiming himself to be the son of God.. Jesus replies:
“Is it not written in your law: ‘I said, Ye are gods?’ If –>he<– called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
this apparently traces back to Psalm 82 where, (and I am not advocating this site directly):
from http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/yegods.htm
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes" (Psalm 82:6-7).
The Lord had given these rulers their authority, but they abused it (Daniel 4:25, 30, 34-37; 5:18-22; Romans 13:1-4).
As a result of their evil stewardship over the offices of God, the Lord said they would fall like one of the princes. In this passage, then, those who are called gods are human judges in the land of Israel.
The Hebrew word translated "gods" is Elohim. This is the masculine plural form of the root word El, denoting strength and power.1 Elohim is used 2,250 times in the Old Testament. What is interesting about this word is that it does not always refer to the one true God, and is not even always translated "god." It is also attributed to angels (Psalm 8:5), and human judges (Exodus 21:6). It is translated as "mighty" in reference to a human prince (Genesis 23:6), thunder (Exodus 9:28), "great" in reference to Rachel's competition with Leah for children (Genesis 30:8)."
I do not particularly like this web sources stated point of view but the info is handy..
Why would Land Rulers be called Elohim? Why Does Jesus say it involves the reception of the word of God? And why does even Jesus say this law cannot be broken?
Furthermore, why does the Old Testament state that the ELOHIM created humans in the garden? How could the Sons of the ELOHIM have children with the daughters of men seeing them fair?
THese are really important questions
the “Ye Are Gods” issue is from the New Testament where Jesus is accused of blasphemy for proclaiming himself to be the son of God.. Jesus replies:
“Is it not written in your law: ‘I said, Ye are gods?’ If –>he<– called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
this apparently traces back to Psalm 82 where, (and I am not advocating this site directly):
from http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/yegods.htm
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes" (Psalm 82:6-7).
The Lord had given these rulers their authority, but they abused it (Daniel 4:25, 30, 34-37; 5:18-22; Romans 13:1-4).
As a result of their evil stewardship over the offices of God, the Lord said they would fall like one of the princes. In this passage, then, those who are called gods are human judges in the land of Israel.
The Hebrew word translated "gods" is Elohim. This is the masculine plural form of the root word El, denoting strength and power.1 Elohim is used 2,250 times in the Old Testament. What is interesting about this word is that it does not always refer to the one true God, and is not even always translated "god." It is also attributed to angels (Psalm 8:5), and human judges (Exodus 21:6). It is translated as "mighty" in reference to a human prince (Genesis 23:6), thunder (Exodus 9:28), "great" in reference to Rachel's competition with Leah for children (Genesis 30:8)."
I do not particularly like this web sources stated point of view but the info is handy..
Why would Land Rulers be called Elohim? Why Does Jesus say it involves the reception of the word of God? And why does even Jesus say this law cannot be broken?
Furthermore, why does the Old Testament state that the ELOHIM created humans in the garden? How could the Sons of the ELOHIM have children with the daughters of men seeing them fair?
THese are really important questions
the second issue is from the Book of Hebrews and the Book of Genesis:
Genesis mentions that Abraham (the supposed father of Judaism, Chrisitanity, and Islam..) paid King Melchisedek taxes and how great this guy is supposed to be..
Hebrews 7 states:
(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%207%20;&version=9;)
“1For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
9And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
11If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”
Intelligence,
I thnk you are raising some really interesting questions here. (Your posts are unfortunately all titled the same, suggest for indexing in the future you use more specific titles).
“Ye are all Gods” issue might possibly relate to the issue of the five shen as our Body Gods (in the school of Inner Alchemy) that can become “corrupted” and misuse their energies for dissipative purposes if they are fragmented and not honoring the Dao’s commandant to establish Harmony and Balance in the kingdom (Later Heaven or Earth).
Melchisedek I believe, based on information from my atlantean source, to be an intelligence at the collective soul level (Stellar Mind, that divides itself into the numerous Soul Minds of Humanity). This would account for its description as having no mother, father, beginning or end.
Vs. other priestly claims to lineages that may not originate at this stellar level, but are based on power seeking from lower levels of consciousness.
michael
Thanks so much for reply
The Ye Are Gods issue roots right into the issue of translations..
if you are going to take every english word as enblazened truth never to be tampered with and taken as verbatim truth,then you have some difficult issues to contend with..
while watching Gibson’s “Passion” with it’s subtitles, this issue becomes beautiffuly illustrated..
Hebrew is it’s own tongue full of lineage and history..
these priests of the Most HIgh God in Jerusalem are shown to despise Jesus’ blasphemous claims as “the Son of God” in contrast to them who Jesus himself says “Are GODS” becuase they have received the holy word..
Notice that Jesus does not say “this is a fallacy”..
in contrary he says this is by a law which cannot be broken..
and defends himself in relation tho their own status..
what does this really mean?
Why should the “Bible” refer to the creators in Edin as “the Elohim”
then later says that the Sons of the Elohim then married the Daughters of Man and beget children? notice the contrast between sons of elohim and daughters of man?
El is a godly title apparently, Eloah is singular form, -him is plural ending in nearly all HEbrew words.. why then would land lords following the Mosaic Exodus be called “GODS” or Elohim.. why did these regents have the word of GOD?
IF we think of the hyperdimensional “alien” language code discussed by Dan Winter and Stan Tenen JJ Hurtak I think we get a better picture..
then there’s the issue that the creation of the “ADAM” in Edin may very well mean “the adamic ones” with Adam actually meaning the “Earth Man”
this is an entirely different bible right within the outer king james english..
notice the troubles TYndale and others had with the Papacy?
THe big question here as pertaining to a collective stellar mind is:
Is this collective stellar mind rooted to an actual star or system or glactic centriole? are there arious levels of the stellar mind and what are they originating from?
furthermore, if one star system or one groups of humans dies off, are they not just so many leaves falling off of the larger branch of the vast stellar mind?
who said anything from those leaves survives? maybe just the branch does?
this is a nice intergalactic consciousness tree metaphor:
where’s the center of the Tree?
Hurtak says the cre of the universe works through the enteraction of a trinity of trees of life.. each tree being it’s own multidimensional geometric energy grid system which is downloaded and replicated into souls
You know what, I know all that, not from books, not from any scientific proof, not from any other earthling, but from download through my practice!
and you know what, so what if we are a genetic manipulated spieces, that the ‘gods’ are our creators, no need to make it so difficult in your postings…you are not the only one who sees life on earth differently.
So Relax, ENJOY the life as an Earthling and if you want to talk about it, great, just cool down a little. And if you want to give ‘scientific’ proof even better. Sure, I find it an interesting subject to have ‘proof’ for my experiences. Although I think science has a hard time to proof this baby…by the way where do you think many of the authors you mention have their ‘proof’ from!!
This cosmic shrimp is not writing books, nor speaks in public, nor speaks in tongues as a channel from starsystem x,y,z, so my speaking is flim flam…so it is and so it will be.To be clear I am not gonna talk about it, All that lives in my heart not in my head, so I have no need to ‘discuss’ it.
It is very difficult to understand the Bible without context. Looking to the original source for “ye are gods” should help to clarify the issues. Of course translation is a problem. I prefer the English Standard Version myself because I don’t know the original languages.
Psalms 82
6 I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
7 nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”These verses are talking to rulers and judges. It acknowledges their power by calling them gods. It then labels their power as deriving from God: “sons of the Most High”. But the next verse continues by telling them they are normal men and can not escape death.
If you start at the beginning of the chapter, it might help to make sense. It talks about helping the weak and needy.
So I would understand the original context to mean “Help the weak because you are powerful. But don’t get a big head because that power derives from God and you are just men.”
The chapter then ends with verse 8 “Arise, O God, judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations!”
I don’t see the great meaning you’re trying to put into this phrase. Seems pretty mundane to me when taken in context.
So there’s nothing catalyzing about the regent land lord scribe priests of Jerusalem being called ELOHIM..
the same word for the creators of mankind in the Garden..
in a supposedly monotheistic religion Scribe Priest Lords are called GODS..
plural of the GOD title EL and creator force ELOAH..
your spark must be dead
did you get all A’s in geometry? (I have a theory about geometry and algebra)
“You Must Be Quite Dim”
you know stuff, and like to share what you know and that’s great.
but, just be careful that you don’t sit so high up on the horse that you can’t hear when others are yelling to let you know there is a lion about to pounce.
the people here know things too.
no shoes are big enough that someone can possible understand all experiences that others have lived. and often those who think those big shoes fit their feet are standing still (or if they try to walk, they’ll fall). and when you’re standing still, man, your missing all the rest of the forest except the trees right in front of you.my wiccan friends cast spells
my voodoo friends work magick
my christian friends pray to jesus/mary
my native american friends pray to their ancestors
my doctor friends at duke explain the physical/scientific reasons to mestudies show that when they all pray for someone sick (each praying for a different individual), the sick person has a better chance of recovery than someone who has no one praying for them. i would bet that the people here have an . . . “energetic”? or spiritual? answer for that. they can explain to me how my energy effects the sick person. and maybe you can give me a more scientific answer.
the results are the same though – scientific or spiritual
i would like to hear the scientific reasonings behind things and you often bring them up, but do you really need to throw around insults? people will hear you better if you speak gently.
of course, we could set a great example in our repliesExodus 20:3 uses Elohim. “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”
Your trying to see too much into the words used rather than the meaning of the words.
It’s kind of funny the arguement you’re making. Jesus actually addressed this with the crowd in John 10. The crowd was obsessing about words, rather than meaning and understanding.
It reminds me of my 7 year old kid. He often argues about the words used, rather than the meaning behind them. I told him I was going to defrost the bread for the pizza. He said “You mean crust!” I then showed him the bag from the freezer that said Frozen Bread Dough. Before he even started to argue about the words I used, he understood my meaning and intent. I know it’s a development phase he’ll grow out of some day.
I’m not sure why you want to take a word out of context and create transdimensional aliens from the 99th and a third century. Context really does matter. Picking and choosing what parts of the Bible to use for your own self promoting ideas is silly.
Missing, obviously by feign, the point that this is at bare minimum MOSAIC law
that the regent lords who have received the “WORD” (in context of blazened tablets) are ELOHIM..JESUS says this is Law not to be broken.. he is standing before the SCRIBE GOD PRIESTS and says this cannot be changed.. they are GODS
it also misses entirely the point that MELCHEZEDEK is ETERNAL
You really crack me up.
What you wrote matters if and only if the Bible is literally true and your interpretation is correct.
I believe the Bible to be literally true but your interpretation to be incorrect.
What you wrote is funny and inconsequential because either…
You believe the Bible is true, so the meaning of “Ye are gods” is the least of your concerns.
Or you don’t believe the Bibile is true, and you are just trying to use the Bible to find fault or advantage.
Either way, thanks for beinging a smile to my face. It good to smile.
I agree with Yi Tao. Though I’m by no means a literalist. I think the 5 books of Moses and other biblical works, evolved over time and borrowed from other cultures. They are remembered histories from the bronze age. There is wisdom to be gotten from them, but for them to be such a source of dispute and warful has got to be one of the original sins.
Lately I’ve been involved in some Kabbalic practices of chanting hebrew as sacred sounds.
Isn’t being like Gd one of the 630 Mitzvahs? Heck isn’t one of the translations of Michael, being like Gd?
My 2 cents, I think we of Gd, but we are not Gd. We can feel and echoe his substance. Like drops of water in the vast ocean.
Michael
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.