Off Topic posts removed -warning on language

Drawn back here like a fly to shit…

;-}

OK.

The skinny: I’m Jewish and spiritually searching constantly. Some things work for me and some don’t… I’m trying out some Winn methods now. I use magic and also kundalini meditation – but there are constant issues, difficulties, some of them what Michael calls ‘ancestral’.

Now my point: you all seem to know, or to think you know, more about what it means to be Jewish than I do. Listen THE FUCK UP>>>.

1. JEWISH PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE.
2. JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE NINETY_NINE PERCENT OF THEM HAVEN’T GOT A FRIGGING CLUE.
3. THE ONES IN CHARGE OF HATEFUL JEWISH SUPREMACISM AND ORTHODOXY ARE AS STUPID AND POINTLESS AS ANY HATEFUL ORTHODOX SUPREMACISTS.

You HAVE to understand YOUR role in this guys! Where do you get off? Don’t you realize that I might not be the only Jew reading? Don’t you realise you’re supposed to represent that 1% that does have a frigging clue? Don’t keep thinking the way the news wants you to think – mass demographics. It’s people, people trying to find answers in a difficult world, that’s all you’re looking at and nothing more, whether they’re Jews or anyone else.

I’m one of the few jews who knows a little about other methods I guess. It isn’t just the jews who should abhor the military action going on, it’s all people who have a heart and a soul and the courage to follow them. Don’t you realise that, ‘chosen’ for something or not, most people are sheep and they believe the bullshit that they’re handed? This is the same with the Jews, the Muslims, EVERYbody.

Wise up! I don’t know any jew who endorses Israeli tactics, and that includes my whole family. Yes I lost family in the holocaust, and hell yes, I HATE the way Jews constantly whine about that. There are jews who try and decry that victim mentality but they get shouted down.

You HAVE to try and UNDERSTAND! We ALL have got a job to do here. Don’t let the lies get to you, don’t believe, even for a SINGLE SECOND, that there is some monolithic Jewish movement to rule the world. It’s all just PEOPLE, people SEARCHING. The good ones search outside indoctrination for the underlying truth. The ones who accept received truth are the ones in charge, this is NOT a racial issue, it is an issue of stupidity in government.

Don’t you realise that Taoism, which to you is an way of freedom and enlightenment, could for some Taiwanese peasant be just as hateful and dogmatic as the idiotic Jewish culture in which I was raised? Don’t lose your heads! No religion or race is right or is wrong. It’s the person that counts, always the individual person and their actions. You cannot for one moment say that a rabbi who loves bombs reflects ‘jewishness’ – only the idiocy of misguided hate-ridden policy. This is the lesson. Misguided hate is the enemy, hatred of the ‘other’ and the ‘enemy’ is the only enemy.

In this time it is especially important that people who are genuinely searching for truth and peace keep their heads. If Paolino is incensed at Jews slaughtering in the name of God, how the hell, I would like to know, does he think it makes me feel? I have tears streaming down my face. I can do nothing but work my way. It is much more important the actions one chooses than the race one belongs to. This is a topic of personal development, spirituality and wisdom. It is not a topic of race. A wise member of any race is wise, and an unwise member of any race is unwise.

The more you think about big blocks of people and bombs the less you will notice the truth – that we are all individuals caught up in a big time and that our wisdom is being tested.

Did that make sense? I hope so because I am disinclined to write further, NN

I think you make a lot of sense (at least to me). I never see Israel as Jews who are killing, I see it as Israel, the country, which is killing… To blame it on the Jews in general is rediculous.

Nnonnth:
“It’s all just PEOPLE, people SEARCHING. The good ones search outside indoctrination for the underlying truth. The ones who accept received truth are the ones in charge, this is NOT a racial issue, it is an issue of stupidity in government.”

Exactly. But unfortunately, most of the people follow the goverment blindly. Not only in Israel of course. People that want war are mislead and blinded by their governments and their conditioning.

I thought the article Freeform posted was nice, loved the first qoute of Gurdjieff.

“A conscious man refuses war. Mutual destruction is a manifestation of men who are asleep.”–G.I. Gurdjieff

You react angry because you feel like a ‘Jew’ yet you say you are ‘human’ so what is the problem? If you feel ‘HUMAN’ it doesn’t matter what race/religion you are, so you don’t need to re-act angry.

Man & Wo(mb)-man – that is nearly it, all the rest we can re-create as we ‘wish’…

>>The reason I left this forum is because when people agree with each other here they seem nevertheless to choose to go on arguing.<<

I agree 😛

On a personal level, I can mostly agree. But on a national level, the current state of humanity doesn’t allow such liberties.

“It is our unresolved issues of separation from the source that lead us to believe we are endangered by others and must be ready to defend ourselves.”

Personal:
Because of law and order, I am able to have this personal view while in my home country. In some countries I would be kidnapped or killed because I am an American. Even if I didn’t have unresolved issues of separation from the source, I would still be threatened. Nick Berg’s spiritual enlightenment didn’t have any impact when he was kidnapped and beheaded with a dull knife while people danced in the background chanting “god is great”. The gurgling and screams would have sounded the same no matter what.

National:
If you don’t understand that there are threats in the world today, you are a fool. I’m sure that Tibet was close to the source and yet that didn’t help them at all. I think the loss of Tibet is one of the greatest losses in recent times..

“Peace is the state of knowingness at the center in which there is harmony”

Personal:
Sure, this is one possible definition. But words have more than one definition and one meaning.

National:
Peace is the absence of threat and the presence of justice. War and peace are opposites. They swing back and forth. Capitalism and the philosophy of Armed Freedom are imperfect ideas, and yet they are the best thing we have today. You can look to a rosy future where everyone is enlightened and “Imagine” has come true, but that isn’t today.

[Sarcasm on]
I’ve got a great idea. How about we get rid of all traffic law? We’ll get rid of the lights and stop signs and the speed limits. We’ll get rid of ambulances and tow trucks. Wouldn’t that be great? We could all drive around relying on the Tao to get us there safely.
[Sarcasm off]

The truth of the matter is that we need traffic law and that each driver need to “drive defensively”. You may be a great driver, but you have no clue about the others on the road, let alone the deer. No amount of wishful thinking and deep profound thought will change that.

I live in a more complex society than a hermit in a cave or a monk in a temple. I will never become enlightened because I do not have the time to dedicate and I have too many worldly distractions. My life has become more in tune with the source and that is a great gift. My life is also in the modern world and that is an ever present reality.

>>Peace is the absence of threat and the presence of justice.<<

do you see how if we have 'justice' we must have the opposite too. If you always try and make things just, you inveriably make other things unjust. Who gets to decide what is justice and what is not? If you pull the pendulum further one way – it will go further the other way.

I'm not talking about 'reality' – I'd say that very few of us have much of a grasp of that. As humans we tend to create whatever we dream of. Society works on a macro-level to how families work or even tribes work – families and tribes have troubles, fights etc. but is it really impossible for a tribe to exist without fighting, defending, being frightened?

The thing is – with these statements (both you and alexander and me and everyone else) are demonstrating our beliefs – and not 'actuality'. Beliefs are *temporary* anchor points untill you find something more usefull. the belief that it takes being a hermit and dozens of years to become enlightened is not a usefull one. If you believed that it takes 1 minute of practice to become enlightened, then it may not happen – but it's far more likely to happen sooner than if you believe that you need to practice for 40 years . How does this relate to the war and peace discussion?

>>it’s weird innit? on one level you want a discussion/argument on another level just simple agreement<<

… but it just makes me more and more puzzled.

Since this whole discussion is about the dangers of unbounded disagreement and the resulting lives lost, one would assume that disagreement would be the problem.

However, whether disagreeing or agreeing, it seems no-one has a good word to say about anyone else on this site, and everyone's first assumption is that the other person hasn't got a clue and is only one step away from being part of the problem.

Why is that?

Why on a site dedicated to freeflowing energy and ease is everyone so very pissed off and difficult? I must admit, since my first teacher told me to judge teachers by their students (although I hope no-one judges him by me!), I held off buying stuff from Winn's catalogue for this exact reason.

I do not think my comments on the nature of this forum are at all to be categorized alongside comments about Israel and world politics! My experience of this forum isn't narrow, and I'm not revealing any assumptions! I'm simply saying I cannot understand the attitude here.

Can you explain it?

NN

>>in the hope that we can integrate the fragments ‘in here’ that resemble the ones ‘out there’?<<

It's possible I suppose. But it doesn't work for me. The catharsis is never reached, the point of constructive dialogue is never found. The draw I feel towards this place is much more like an addiction than anything positive. The desire to be absent from here comes to me quicker every time I visit. It doesn't bode well for the practices themselves, but I am interested so I will ignore that. On the other hand, it it seems like no-one here talks about them anyhow.

I'm off again. NN