segue: post-modern spirituality

Heya Trunk –

Interesting post!

But on this I think you may have missed something –

>>And that calls for a non-sectarian understanding of the process.<< Where does this universalising, non-sectarian approach come from though? Isn't it lineal in some way? Aren't you still following an idea there, that others follow? How about the stream spreading from the Greek Philosophers to modern scientific method for example? How about the "lineage" of democracy and free speech? How about saying you follow an "Alexandrianist" philosophy where you believe in many streams of knowledge combining and people draw from its big river? Just about everyone interesting that I know is combining streams. It is far more interesting that way. That is why, for me, one of the first things to consider in any "lineage" esp. these days, is how does it react to other lineages? If a lineage is a place for you to draw from and put down roots this is good. But if it is a place where you then have to give up looking elsewhere, then it is not so good. Everyone eventually finds things more comfortable and congenial some places than others, but a place or a family or stream of thought or body of knowledge or whatever is only a stage or a thing moving - it isn't settled. You have to like more than "what it is", you have to like "where it's going". Me, when I like something I say I'm following it, only if it allows me to continue working on other things too and is open and interested and still playing. If it says no to still playing then I don't say I'm following it, I say I'm stealing from it. I like "modern western culture" precisely because it encourages such an attitude. We have a secular culture so we can follow and steal from what we like (ideas-wise). So when you are doing *anything* at all like that, if you are not saying everyone else must follow you and stop playing other things, you are being secular. You are following a lineage that says we get to choose to be whatever way we like. But now I've written this, I don't even know if I answered you! best NN

What I was referring to is, primarily, a celestial lineage. That is, in a “heavenly” realm, a group of beings maintaining an enlightened configuration. The fact is that its extremely difficult “down here” to really resolve our confusion. Traditionally, aspirants (and Teachers) have allied themselves with heavenly support groups that provide the purity and power that makes effective purification down here possible. A particular earth-lineage will typically ally with a specific heavenly-lineage.

Correct. Without the lineage that proved to be a success this all is just a big gamble.

I may be making a fool of myself here, but in the shower I couldn’t stop thinking about it so I’m going to come back and type.

What misled me in your 1st post, Trunk, was your use of the word “secular”. I was wondering whether our western days of the week provided any answer? Eg., “Tiw” is the Norse war god of our “Tuesday”, “Mars” of French “Mardi” is the Roman one. Or Woden/Wednesday ~ Mercury/Mercredi etc.

It appears that with these pantheons there was an equivalence then between roles of different immortals. This is hidden amongst our names for the days of the week and we don’t even notice it…

It is the same with Jesus actually, or so I believe. Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy’s book, “The Jesus Mysteries” is very good on this. Amongst (many) other things, they do a good deal of comparing Jesus’ story to those of older pagan gods, whom they composite into a figure they call “Osiris-Dionysus”. This personage is also god made flesh, also born of a mortal virgin, also before three shepherds, also turns water to wine, also rides on a donkey, also is celebrated with bread and wine representing his flesh and blood, etc.

What I’m saying is, following one lineage perhaps does not make one less than harmonious with someone following another one, unless it happens that you have been TOLD by someone that only one is really “true”. The *pantheonic* immortals amongst different traditions are, if not actually equivalent, then certainly not mutually exclusive.

One might say a Roman Catholic’s set of immortals are their saints rather than Christ. But I give you my word that what I say is true even of these saints. I could give you examples from new-world religions left over from the slave trade having brought Africans to the US, eg. Santeria. “In the new world, religious Africans had no difficulty matching their various tribal deities to the Saints of the Roman Catholic Church, and then worshipping them under a new guise.” – “Practice of Magic”, Mickaharic. In these religions, as in Catholicism, people are born under certain deities’ signs etc, just like saint’s days and name days.

Now maybe alchemy is different. The immortals aren’t perhaps pantheonic in the same way. The “lists” of taoist immortals I’ve seen referred to are the same as in the west – there are pages and pages of these people in western alchemy, each with his/her own theory and piece of wisdom. But I question whether even here there is a necessity to follow this or that lineage always – and even if there is, the remarkable similarities between one tradition and another are yet again more a cause of secular unity than a way to divide.

Our true lineage is non-cultural and involves all people and all things on this earth. In Hermetics it’s said that, of the various *archetypal* immortal beings that exist beyond Saturn and what is called the Abyss, your immortal spirit descends from one and only one. However the person next to you could be from a totally different one. The point is that each of the many flowerings of the divine in earth-based cultures is part of a greater pattern. There *is* a cultural component to lineage, but the world consists of all the world’s cultures. There *is also* a purely factual, celestial component to lineage – but do the saints fight to possess our souls, are they jealous?

Now I may be totally wrong about all this! And furthermore may still not be addressing your question…

best NN

PS On the cover of “The Jesus Mysteries” is a picture of christ crucified, on an amulet from the third century CE. It is in every respect what we, *culturally*, would call a crucifix. But the inscription on it, in Greek, reads “Orpheus Bacchus”.

Michael >>So “safest” strategy, given that it is hard to tell from earthly perspective where a given lineage leads, is to get into direct relationship with the Life Force.<< Absolutely, and there is no mystical or magical tradition that would disagree with that idea. "It all began with the great and gaping void. Voluspa and prose Edda agree on this point, and state that the southern rim of the void was hot and bright, while the northern rim was cold and frozen. Within the void, the cold mists of Niflheim and the bright firesparks of Muspelheim met and mingled. Out of fire and fog, an elixir came dripping, and conglomerated into a human image. This was Ymir, oldest of the giants." - Jan Fries, "Seidways". This is why I gave the example of Alexandria. It was a melting pot just like the internet is today. Everyone learned from everyone else. best, NN

Ciao Pietro –

>>your immortal spirit descends from one and only one<< You have to be careful here my friend, the situation is not quite as you describe it I think and is more complicated. This immortal individual self is only one level of "you", and is descended from other things that can sprout, as it were many individual selves. But I'd like to let some other people answer, esp. Michael. Also I'd like to thank whoever it was that deleted all the crap! best NN

Some brave human had to take a BIG gamble to create the first lineage, as they had no one to follow….
It was a long time ago. Now, we have quiet a few paths that proved to be successful.

which brings us back to issues I have raised previously – there is no lineage that does functions beyond the principles of the Life Force. They are ALL dependent on it. So “safest” strategy, given that it is hard to tell from earthly perspective where a given lineage leads, is to get into direct relationship with the Life Force.

The safest strategy would be to merge with the flow of Life Force, not tring to lead it through visualizations/actualizations. It may sound like a good idea at first, but do you really think you can open the orbit by visualizing the energy flow through it? The answer is yes only if a student is already prepared for it and saved enough jing to transform it into chi through meditaton.

Here are a few helpful things to be successful (not in order):
1. proper nutrition (lots of raw foods preferably)
2. saving your semen through correct sexual practices or abstinence
3. regular meditation practices- at least 2 hours sitting and all throughout the day.
4. doing meritorious acts of kindness to people in need and/or to hungry ghosts.
5. light physical exercise like yoga, chi kung etc.

All 5 are very helpfull in your cultivation, but without #4 you will fail to accomplish anything significant. Without merit you are like a car without gas- all you can do is to push it along the highway. No alchemy will help you, no stillness will substitute it.

all these lineages necessarily intersect as they devolve towards source, wuji
Yes, all paths at high levels merge into one.

It all sounds good. The trick is to see what part of it is real and what is not.