White Cloud taught Emptiness

Its impossibe to have no yin/yuan/yang in this life, but in a non-interfering state (wu wei)that trinity is in harmony and we are one with our true nature. Instead of empty I will call it Wu Wei from now on.

In Wu Wei all of life processes continue, humans cannot stop the sun and moon from their paths, we can go with the cycles of nature, this is the guidance of taoist teaching. Wu Wei is attuning to this process of nature/humanity.

bagua

Individual development is a process, if you believe there are Immortals and achieved people on this planet, the awareness they perceive exists now, regardless of where you are at as an individual. The invidiual does not determine this immortal/eternal universal state, they attune to it. Therefore, it always exists.

Your heart beats regardless of your intent or exertions of free will, it is nature’s way. We have choice as to what we decide to attune to, attuning to tao is our goal, the vast body of tao history offers many ways to do it. Five phases is like the heart, it beats regardless of your intent, five phases flows as an expression of Tao, we are five phases, we are tao, we are yin-yang, we are trinity, we are all of these without free will and without intent. In Wu Wei we experience Tao in all its variety.

bagua

Hi Fajin:

You bring up some good points.

Faj
Chan, on the other hand, is a wugong and so you don’t have a choice because you are NOT choosing what you specifically want. It’s an absolute state, non-changing. It’s not wu-wei if you have to attain it with effort. Work on three treasures with effort, and wu-wei will come without effort, that’s the key.
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Only intellect can artificially say there is no yin-yang, wu xing, etc.; when in a neautral state, they always exist, this is tao. By being in Wu Wei you allow it to manifest in a non-restinant way, this is one goal of alchemy.

Neutral is only your ego, intellect or mind, it does not mean nature’s pattern stop, it means we experience them in a natural form, not conditioned form.

Faj
Remember the saying to be like water and adapt to anything. Well, wateris between solid and gas so it is yuan. But it can become solid (ice) or gas (steam), it can become anything, this is wu-wei. Do you see how things are being shaped? Why not shape the life force into what we want just like this. Go specifically for wu-wei by cultivating the three treasures.
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These are all the manifestions and changes of life, all natural.

Being in wu wei is shaping the life force, it is attuning to it and it takes intent to want to do this, but when in it, there is no intent, it is natural like you doing martial arts when attacked, you do not think, you react, this is wu wei.

bagua

Hi Fajin:

First, I think it is only honest to realize that unless one practices Chan, better yet have interaction with a master, that anything they say about it may not be accurate.

Faj
My interpretation of living life in neutrality is shaping the qi field. That is the way to live life, with intent. Let wu-wei get there later, through shaping the life force through intent.
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It sounds like you are saying “intention is following the patterns consciously within your body, following wu xing and energy patterns”. To me this is just following what already exists with your Yi, you are not shaping anything, you are becoming aware of what already exists. Unless the two are the same, this is what I believe.

If you live in the mountains, and you just take the mountains and natural enviornment in, you will attune to what already exists, nature will shape your Yi, this is Chan, this is tao.

Faj
When cultivating three treasures, you get wu-wei without effort as I have mentioned in the example of three flowers meet the top.
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If you cultivate, you are making an effort.

bagua

Hi Fajin:

I think Tantra and Chan are two very different methods, maybe the end result is the same, I dont know, I hope so.

I think you believe the following, maybe you can let me know if yes or no or were I am misunderstanding you?

I think you believe if you consciously learn the complete cosmology and then do the formuals that corresponding to each level of cosmology and work your way back, step by step, your intellect/conscousness acheives enlightment and immortality. That you shape your Qi, three treasures, etc. in each formula to become the shape behind the cosmology? That the conscious/Yi/Intellect is critical to shaping the Qi field. Let me know if this is correct?

thanks,

bagua

Oh Bagua,

You really intrigue me. I think we have the knowledge passed down for several generations and we can overcome any of life’s obstacles because we know how to shape the qi field in that way. If we didn’t know certain ways of overcoming something, I think wugong is great because we can naturally re-align towards balance in that particular difficulty that we are at.

But since we have specific techniques to allow Original Spirit to emerge, or whatever it may be we are trying to do, let’s use those. If we just needed wugong, all knowledge is then meaningless. I don’t see what the point of knowing things would be. In every single spiritual tradition, there is some kind of knowledge required. In Chan, it is just wugong, nothing is needed to be known.

For the sake of future discussions, I have practiced Tibetan Tantra and know what emptiness is about. Prior to my lung-gom-pa training, I was instructed to pick a star in the night, and gaze at it for several hours. Believe it or not, I sometimes did this for the whole night in padmasana. I know what deep trances are about and I know what wu is about, Bagua. My mind was very still. I don’t do this anymore though.

I know that when your mind is this still, your parasympathetic-sympathetic nervous system is in balance and qi flows without stagnation. Jing, qi, and shen begin to align themselves naturally as your brain is in this mode. Do nothing and nothing will be left undone.

Regards,
Fajin